Because this has come up again and again I believe it warrants its own topic.
My belief is that Cale doesn't look feminine at all, but what's your opinion?

Agreed.

I give you a cookie.


No, I don't think Cale looks feminine. Yes, he's got the long hair, but so do a lot of guys, both in fantasy and in real life. The few times in the comic they've cracked jokes about him being girly just isn't enough for people to continually run it into the ground, in my opinion.

Cale's an elf, elves are ambiguously gendered, ergo Cale is also ambiguously gendered.

flawless logic as always Rurik So what's your definition of unambiguously gendered? Must something be drawn by Rob Liefield to qualify as male (huge muscles) or female (big boobs)?

Nah, Richard is clearly male. Pretty much anything non-elf or drow counts as unambiguously gendered, Drizzt is male, albeit he's a pussy, Eddie Izzard is male, Rayne is most certainly male, Cale, Vaarsuvius, Legolas, or for that matter any role by Orlando Bloom, and Ash Ketchum are all ambiguous however.

I don't see how Cale's ambiguous in the least. What does he have to do, grow a ZZ Top beard?
Edit: How is Richard clearly male? For all we know Richard's a chick with an unfortunate name and a deep voice. He's already got the same body as most modern runway models.

Because if Richard were a woman, she'd have destroyed the universe the moment she had PMS. And as stated, Cale's an elf, it's just part of her/his nature. Just like it's in a dwarf's nature to talk like a Scotsman, a Michael Bay movie's nature to suck ten kinds of ass, a politician's nature to be a lying sack of crap, and a drow wearing cat ears and a tail's nature to be hot.

You have a rather dim and unimaginative view of Fantasy and Fiction in general.

How many dwarves have you ever seen that didn't talk like a Scotsman. Bruenor, Pella, Durkon, all the same accent. Fantasy has just as many tropes as any other genre.

Unfortunately that's a result of stagnation. It's people like you who can't imagine it any other way. Unfortunately people like you seem to be writing the vast majority of new fantasy.

Not really, I have lots of characters who break traditions, like my halfling barbarian, but there are certain parts of the tradition that can't be broken, like a seven foot tall dwarf, or an elf built like an ogre, they just wouldn't be dwarves and elves then, personalities are one thing, but body structure is different.

Ugh you're missing the entire point of fantasy. Fantasy isn't about following pre-existing tropes (I'll admit I'm being hypocritical here, I always follow fantasy tropes like a blind sheep) its about creating something new and defying the bounds of imagination. Whatever, getting off topic here.

Dear god.

You even derail your own topics. Even the ones you made discussing a new topic because I pestered you about derailing other topics.

I CAN'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT!!!!
But in all seriousness I really don't see how Cale's feminine in the least. Long hair is not feminine (per se). You're not going to call the Mighty Thor feminine are you?

Actually yes, yes I am. Thor's a whiney little pansy, now the Incredible Hercules, he's a frelling hero!

Not going to get into an argument about who can lift more Golden Apples but you seem to be grasping at straws now. By your standards pretty much no one's a manly man.

Nope, plenty of people are manly men by my standards, Hercules, Krunch, Minsc and Boo, Deadpool, they're all manly, however there aren't any elves on that list, I may consider a few to be badass, like Vaarsuvius, but none of them are manly.

Again though if Cale wasn't an elf would you consider him manly? Your logic is awful.

Would depend on if he still PMS'd as much as he does now, and if he was still so caught up in his notions of good, if he still had the same personality he does now, he'd still be a PMSing pussy.

Oh so Cale displaying a range of emotions and having some (God forbid) ideological fiber to him makes him a girly man?
Is there an emoticon that shows someone grasping at straws?

Yes, yes it does. Everyone knows real men are evil, they also wear pink.

How bout Samurai Jack? He's as pure as they come and he's all man (okay I think it's more like he's half badass-half man).
Good=/=lame

Well naturally there are exceptions to any rule, Jack is incredibly badass and manly, just like Drizzt is an incredible pansy, even though he's a drow.

Ah I see you've found a gap in your logic to escape through, nicely done.

I've already answered it, but no.

Cale naturally have a more slender physique than Aeloon or someone like Krunch, but he's pretty obviously male.

And here are some examples of manly/masculine looking elves:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

However, Rurik said he found Orlando Bloom as Legolas androgynous, while I merely think he looks youthful, so it's obviously a case of your mileage may vary.

There can also be a noticeable difference between face and body. A male can have a delicate and/or androgynous, or even feminine face, and still have a very obviously male body, with the reverse situation for the females.

To be fair your number 5 example is a little bishie.
Until Cale looks like those creepy anime villains who thoroughly confused me as a child he's not androgynous. In fact Cale's manlier than most of your examples.

Number 5 (is alive! ) has a pretty androgynous face, agreed, but with that body no-one will mistake him for a female.

And yes, in a general sense he is.
I merely wanted to show that there there is a wide range to the term 'masculine', even for elves, and that handsome or even pretty =/= feminine.

Though like I said, it's a case of your mileage may vary.

Orlando Bloom in general actually, and while I'm thinking of it, Hanson and Leonardo DeCaprio are also on that list.

Umm I've seen some pretty rockin girls with abs like that, me I like girls with abs so I get weirded out by muscular bishies. It's like uncanny valley but with gender identification.

Bloom and DiCaprio have rounder features and little beard growth, so they come across as less manly than males with more angluar faces would do. However, both have bodies and more importantly, body language, that puts them pretty firmly on the masculine side.
Not that they wouldn't be able to assume a more feminine body langue for a role, in which case they would come across as more androgynous/feminine.
Hanson just came across as long-haired boys to me. Haven't seen them since Mmm-bop, so I have no idea what they look like now.



Well, since females naturally have a higher percentage of body fat, they tend to be rounder and 'softer' and those with abs, particularly washboard abs, aren't that common.
I also think it can look really good though, for both males and females, which I usually put that down to people being more bi than our culture indoctrinates us to be. We like certain things in both genders, on an aesthetic level in nothing else.

Even so, body language tend to vary in males and females even when they have a similar physique.
And, well, while not every female is graceful, female body language often put me in mind of the song 'poetry in motion'.


Oh, and for some poking fun at masculine/feminine, take a gander at this.

I don't think anyone in the LFG 'verse really, truly thinks Cale looks 100% feminine; it's just a running gag that probably annoys the hell out of him.
I don't really see how the character actually looks feminine, unless it's justa matter of the hair and facial style; but that could also be chalked down to Cale (possibly) being younger than the other elves and adult characters we've seen.
"Yes, I'm carding you for that alcohol. You're under 200? *thpt*, teenagers!"

Rofl, it's his/they talent XD

going to have to go for "no". I mean, it's a lot of fun claiming he is a girl, but being a rather slim male with long hear and no beard whatsoever myself, I somehow need to pay that dude some respect... ^^

If by running gag you mean brought up once or twice in the last 200 strips then yes, it sure is a running gag.

The simple fact is that the whole thing is a joke. One that was made several times near the beginning of the comic and not much, if at all, since. The joke probably spawns from the fact that elves, as we typically think of them, tend to be feminine in appearance. Sure you can show any number of examples that show otherwise, but it doesn't matter. Jokes don't need to be, and rarely are, 100% accurate. Whether or not Cale fits that stereotype is a matter of perspective.

Now admittedly, it does seem like the joke has been overdone on the forums to the point that I don't find it too funny anymore. But hey, if someone finds the joke funny then it's a success, right?

Ah no, that's the logic that keeps Dane Cook in business.
Anyways Benny was the one who originally mistook Cale for female (in truth it was probably less than serious, she just found Cale to be ridiculous at that point) and we clearly see that she's not of that belief anymore.

Following my own particular stereotype, I assumed Cale was male from panel #1, because of how much clothing he was wearing...I initially mistook Pella for male for the same reason. *grins*

(Seriously though...usually females are more curvy, have bigger lips, and gravity-defying costumes. Pella can be excused for wearing too much, since dwarves are notably fond of their armor.

Pella has pretty full lips though.

Cale is obvious male...but..a very pathetic male at the beginning. I don't get how you can mistaken him as a chick. Wellllll maybe in the distance from the back you might from his long golden hair XD

Yeah Fabio could possibly be confused for a woman from the back depending what outfit he has on but when he turns around he's clearly male

Cale's pretty pathetic now, so that hasn't really changed.

What do you mean pathetic? How many guys do you know that can catch a crossbow bolt and throw it back through an opponent's skull? Yeah real pathetic there.

In fantasy and science fiction, everyone and his decrepit old grandmother.

No not really. Damn you could probably turn grasping for straws into an Olympic Sport with your level of skill.

Not really, it isn't even a high level feat, hell, monks get it for free, which means Richard could do it if he wanted, but there's no point since he's awesome enough to make arrows with his mind.

God I love reverse scientific method. Come up with a conclusion then throw out anything that disagrees with your conclusion. Really Rurik you're not even making sense anymore, how is doing an impossible feat not high level?

Just three feats, any character can easily have it before level 10 with just a 15 dexterity score, a monk won't even need to reach level 5.

That doesn't mention throwing the arrow back clean through the opponents skull. And in either case a bolt is a lot faster and harder to catch (impossible really) than an arrow.

Bolts, arrows, bullets, all the same as far as the feat is concerned, and going through the back of the head is just a double critical hit, which is instant death.