K, goin from the fantasy creature thread (I figure this is a derailment so I started this.) I've seen many modern day take ons Myth's and legends (from moderate succes to titanic failures), I don't think there are many I've seen which just floor me, but I have a concept for one that I'd like to see (and as I haven't seen it made yet, I've got the basic premise of a beginning fleshed out, I just have to figure out everything else about it).

Here's the works. Now the thread will be - Fantasy in the movies. What works, what doesn't, how can it be improved, and what would you like to see that hasn't been done (or would you like to see redone).

but it would start off with some scene from Vietnam where a soldier does something really impressive, and falls in battle, and medics rush in to help, and it's from the dying guy's perspective of the field doctors trying to save him, and as he's dying the battle fades away, and the silouette of an angelic figure approaches from behind the medics, and the scene fades to black.

Then it would flash forward to present time, and it'd follow female X in a regular day job, office stop happening, takes the train home, flash to something dark watching the train, and chasing after (leaving smouldering paw prints), and it's a hell hound (of course it's nearly as large as the train), and as it's stalking the train, you follow a cinder through the air as it's caught in the train's wake, and the camera pans through the train, well, suffice to say ends up with an angelic figure battling the hell hound from the top of the train. It's pretty well choreographed actually. And then you get insight on how the two sides are watching the mortal realm, and the barriers are weakening, the day of ragnorak is approaching (turns out the guy who died earlier was her father, and valkyries claimed the warrior soul, etc.)

Very convoluted, but once you flesh out the story and the antagonist (haven't done that yet, only minions and ideas), it all falls together rather easily. For the most part I'd stray away from the Action/Comedy to be more flat out action/serious (there will be no cheesy humor ruining my movie).

Make that an RP. NOW!

I want to play.

I could help if you would wish to include Celtic Lore. I have a few books and traditional legends from my Grandmother.

Sounds interesting so far . . . I'd probably be interested in watching / playing something that starts off like that.

Do you need any more help with the classical aspect of the folklore / myths? I have some reference books.


Back on topic: It's a small pet peeve, but I'd like to see unicorns without solid hooves. It has a horn. Every hoofed animal with one or more horns has cloven hooves. Multiple toes, equals split hooves. It's not much to ask for.

A movie with indiginous American mythology. Any of the cultures would do: anything ranging from Inuit to Mayan to Shawnee. I'm not picky.

I'd also like to see something with slightly modern legends from America: the Jersey Devil, Chessie, the Winchester house, gators in New York sewers, the snipe.

With your mention of the valkyries and Ragnarok, I take it you're going mainly with the norse version of the end of the world as a basis for the story. The problem with that is, as I understand it, most of the events described in that version of the apocalypse is fights between the Norse gods and their monsters. Either you remain faithful to what's been written and there's nothing for the humans to do or you change part of a mythology for the purpose of a single story. Each has their own problems.

But, then again, with the hellhound you brought up, I begin to wonder if you even have bound yourself to just the Nordic myths, since I don't know if that's where you pulled that from. But mixing the mythologies of different cultures can be iffy ground if it isn't done right. You have to set up the story and explanations in a believable way before I can accept different sets of cultures clashing, literally and figuratively, and explaining why neither have been seen publically.

Still, I've always liked myths and seeing them implemented into a story every now and then. Interesting to see what you might do with it.

Unicorn = horse with a horn.... Horses have solid hooves. give it cloven hooves and you have a one horned cow.

There would definitely be a mix of Mythology. Which is a very tricky balance, because if I include every aspect of every religion, it becomes a mish-mash. If I just pick the stereotypical parts of each religion, I've got Jesus being all righteous being smacked down by some dragon.

Ultimately it's a good vs evil story line. But unlike usual stories where the good side will overcome and then the dieties just fade away, well, it's Ragnorak, so both sides exterminate each other, just leaving a few surviving humans.

But the fun part is showing the fraying lines of good and evil slowly stirring. Like, a navy patrol will identify an object appearing on the radar, and it's a mammoth kraken that was buried under the rocky depth. And erupts out of the water (the body of the beast is going to be above the water, so it's not just another of those crappy tentacle battles... you actually see the eyes and mouth of the beast above water). And as it's sinking a ship, the other ships are firing missiles and heavy guns at it, and they take it out after a short but ugly battle (and the ship going down). And the captain starts ordering rescue boats, when five more blips show up, and the waters start writhing (and their ship gets mounted by a kraken), when a goliath of an angel lands on the creature with a warhammer to the eye, and a legion of angels (ok, maybe 20?) but they're probably about 15 feet tall each, in battle armor (more like Tyriel from Diablo when it comes to wing shape and style, so whispy yet feathered wings in six branching formations (seraphim!)).

So in the end all the gods and monsters are exterminated, and you probably have that angel from the beginning (the one from the train), dying against a tree, and the woman (who's probably messed up a bit) is all upset and yelling because they were supposed to win, and he would say something along the lines of "It was never our fate to survive..." of course that has to be worked on a bit, but all the gods and demi-gods and titans are slain in the battle (and the majority of the people and hte lands are pretty screwed up).

It's a convoluted concept, I know, but I promise I won't have it made if it's not perfectly scripted and as epic as it should be.

On the other hand, I may just go with a Nordic foundation and forget trying to make it include many (or all) religions. It's difficult to formulate a plot worthy reason why God isn't all "God-moding".

They do this because it's hard to create a true unicorn without digital imagery. Their attempts are just using a horse and sticking a horn on it's head, which is closer than trying to find a cloven hoofed animal to fit the part


Wrong. This is what they made us to believe...well, no. More like shoved down our throats. A unicorn has cloven hooves. They are very much like a horse with a horn except for this one other difference. If you want to get technical, you can bring the tail into it, as well. Many of the older myths claim that unicorns had a tail more like that of a cow.

As far as mixing the religions, you could do it American Gods style, with the gods going wherever it is people believe in them. That means the Norse stay mostly in Scandinavia, the Celts stay in Ireland and the like, Zeus and his pantheon stay in Greece and Rome. America becomes a mish-mash with the varying beliefs, and some of its own original gods and creatures.

I would absolutely love to see Paul Bunyan and Thor go at it.

Well, it's a good vs evil thing, so Paul and Thor, though they may make an epic battle, would be on the same side. But I would be using religous myths, not simply Tall Tales. So Paul wouldn't be likely to make the cut.

I'd also avoid symantics about where they'd based.

As a solution to the myriad of myths and such, I may create an alternate version, where though the gods have been worshipped with alternative names and myths, they've always remained the same entities, they've just been known by many names and roles.

I am sorry but to this I can not agree with. It has been said in almost every folk lore or tale i have read that involved the silly creature. It has always mentioning them galloping... which can not be done with cloven hooves!!!

The reason they do not have cloven hoofs is because bovines are not graceful, and the unicorn is supposed to be a graceful animal.

Cloven hooves does not equal cow. Ever heard of deer? Gazelle? Impala?

Neither of those animals gallop. The unicorns size and mass is much larger then that of any of those animals. Although i agree the idea is logical, i do not believe it fits into the basic idea of a unicorn that was spoken in most tales.

*shrug* As with any mythology, your descriptions are going to vary depending upon your sources. It just appears to me that the older the source information the more deer-like the Unicorn seems to be described, and the less likely it is to allow someone to ride it.

But the problem is exactly that it is a myth, and all myths are subject to interpretation. The older the myth, the more reliant on early oral traditions, and therefore differing regional/personal embellishments.



The movie blunder that always bothers me is the dragon VS wyvern thing. They like the image of a winged critter with no fore-legs, so they call it a dragon, even though it's a wyvern. Sure, if you wanna look at it on a ficticious genetic family tree they're probably fairly closely related... But only close like chimps and humans. In most books a dragon is inteligent enough to chose good or evil, weild powerful spells, and so on, whereas a wyvern typicly doesn't think much beyond it's next meal.

One that especialy set me off (I don't know how my Mom convinced me to sit through a Sci-Fi Original... That's a warning lable if ever there was one), was Fire & Ice. What the hell were those things? They looked like elementals from the planes of ice and fire got it on with a manta ray! The more I watched it, the more it hurt my head. They only lay one egg and they carry it around embedded in their skull? Oh... I can feel the migrane comming... It might almost have been tolerable if they'd called them elemental demons instead of dragons.

Yes, I know, there are several different cultural interpretations of dragons. But I challenge anyone to find a traditional refference to a dragon that looks like it came out of Sea-World's ray exibit and then got cast in magma.

If you have issues with dragons, you might not like my RP.

Meh. You've fairly blatantly made sure that your RP is not in any way set in a traditional setting. Whatever you do with any of the content now doesn't relate to "earth" mythology.

I mean yeah, you can see connections to celts, aztecs, and anubis in teh Gerran, but you put it in a blender and made something new. I'm sure if I picked at the others I could break them down too. But again... It's all been remixed into a whole different world.

The ones that set my eye twitching and that vein in my forehead throbbing are the ones that are set in a historical earth setting and use well known myths, then thrash them into something else because the director thought it would look cool.

How far back are these sources? Wasn't it Aristotle that compared the mighty unicorn to the indian ass... which is definately more horse like then deer like... and has a solid hoof.

I would like to hear some of these older sources that describe it as more deer like, I think it would be quite an interesting read.

I would love to be able to site specific references. Sadly, I haven't really looked at any of those particular books for 12 years or so. If by chance I stumble across any of them I'll get back to you. I find it very surprising you haven't come across any of those descriptions yourself.

Nope cant say I have. And i do enjoy reading a good tale... What kind of stories are these unicorns in? How are they portrayed?

I think i would find it odd reading about a unicorn stomping or hopping about.

I do have a rather large section of fantasy books and many books about mythology, Greek mythology being my favourite... I know its kinda a main stream mythology.

anywho im derailing this thread so i should stop

Well, to be fair, the oldest reference of a unicorn implies it's either a goat or a rhinocerous (some of the varieties were shaggy and had only one horn instead of the now popular one and a half).

One and a half horns? I was going to stay out of this particular argument but WHAT? There's only ever been one damn horn. ONE.

It is possible. If it weren't possible for an animal with cloven hooves to gallop, explain a stampeed or a frightened deer running through the forest. Cows aren't graceful because of their bulk and their skeletal structure, not because of their feet. If you want to use that as an arguement, how about a buffalo? They have hooves instead of cloven feet and yet they are NOT graceful. You can't judge something like that based solely on your opinion. There are facts to be taken into account.


Agreed....


Like I said before, the unicorn is horse-like therefore horses are used to depict them. Look at tapestries, paintings, and the like. Many of the oldest show them to have cloven hooves. They aren't horses. They simply have a similar build. This build is also similar to a donkey or a deer or an elk. For all we know, the unicorn could be a gazelle with a single horn.

The first image is an extint rhinocerous which lived in Russia/India (where Unicorns were presumed to originate from), and would match the description of a unicorn used at the time.

And quote from Marco Polo "scarcely smaller than elephants. They have the hair of a buffalo and feet like an elephant's. They have a single large black horn in the middle of the forehead... They have a head like a wild boar's… They spend their time by preference wallowing in mud and slime. They are very ugly brutes to look at. They are not at all such as we describe them when we relate that they let themselves be captured by virgins, but clean contrary to our notions."

*edit* I'd stand to suggest that a description of "Horse like" evolved through literature and spoken oration to become "a horse with a horn".

The majority of animals with horns have two, though there is also some suggestion that a goat can be nurtured that it's two horns grow entwined, forming one horn.

Ultimately, what we now consider a unicorn is what we're going to end up with. It's a rather solid standard, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

The Narwhal is a prime example of this phenomenon. While the "horn" is actually a tusk, it is a pair of the front teeth wound together to form a single structure.

*CoughcoughAmericanGodsCougCough*

Facts????? Its a mythical Creature.

The reason cows and buffalos move the way they do is because of there bulk.

What painting or drawing gets close enough to the hooves for you to be able to tell what kind of hooves they have?

The unicorn could be some opium induced acid trip for all we know.

How can you consider someone elses thoughts Opinions but consider yours facts?

Didn't I say exactly that? I'm actually using facts. You know, skeletal structure, build, historical artifacts. Just because I use fact to back up my opinion, does not mean I discount all other opinions. I said you can't base it solely on opinion. Fact helps back up an argument. I never said my opinion was fact. Myth is based on fact. Other than that....I'm not arguing with you.

There are facts that can be used to back up myth. For instance, dragons could easily be based on a type of lizard that used to be around, but died out. All mythology could fit into history somewhere...not in it's current form or with the added mythology, but at the core they are all possible.

Sorry for veering off topic....

I always wondered if perhaps elephants could have been mistaken for dragons at a distance. Big floppy ears = wings, Trunk = long neck, Spewed water = fire.

moose

Edited for moose

No joke.

There is evidence you could use to prove they have cloven hooves or to have solid hooves. The fact that they apparently look alot like a horse means they would share the same body characteristics. Mass, body shape, perhaps even behaviour. I think it would be fair to assume they would share the same hoof type.

Although if it was a one horned buffalo that would be pretty cool.

Meh sorry, just do not like having my oppinions which were also based on fact, considered less then others. All mythology will be riddled with opinions, it is true the dragon could have been based on a big ass lizard from back then. Someone could have seen an ugly ass bird flying over. Perhaps even a flying snake O.o who knows.

Or, y'know, there could actually have been dragons/vampires/yetis and the like.

True we will most likely never know the truth in our life time O.o

Wheres BIG FOOT at??? we find him and he will know all. He is a chronicler of ages.

I'm suprised no one has adressed the biggest myth plaguing mankind today...

The myth that dane cook is funny.

Living proof that not all myths have a kernel of truth at their core...

Something must be done about this...

who is this one eyed, one horned, flying purple people eater?

where has he come from?

Does he have a nose?

Does he like salt on his people?

All these questions and no answers

Is he purple? Or does he only eat purple people? Does he only eat purple people with one eye and one horn that fly?

The song also references his desire to play rock-and-roll. Where are his new albums, and how soon will they be demolished on American Ido?

I know we were grumping on dragons. I feel that Luck Dragons have been portrayed accurately in movies.

the unicorn was said to have the BODY of a horse LEGS of a dear, HEAD of a horse/goat (whoever the source is.) and tail of a LION, and yes it was probably mistaken for a breed of deer, or rhino, depending if you are reading east or west myth. same as dragons, over the years the myth changes and artist, be it by movies or books make it in their vison, hence we are left with a horse with one horn (uni) one and Corn(horn) also horses have toes, but the feet are no longer cloven, they were millions of years ago. and cows do canter. a 3 beat gaint, not well but they do.. they were also said to be as small as a goat, so it also implys maybe feral goats started the myth. again this all comes from where the source came from.

Edit, also google "deer" unicorn or Cow unicorn, there are mutations where the horn buds of the animal have fused together and created "one horn" so maybe it is where the myth started? -shrug-

Also as how the movies can fix the myths? doing some real reasurch and not takeing the cheep way out.. >> I.e the last unicorn that is to be made into live action, they are using an arabian horse, pasting a horn on its head and CGI'ing it in certin parts...come on thats just lazy.. as this is why the "horse with a horn=unicorn" myth comes in.. silly hollywood

I do not think any "myth" can be portrayed accurately. Because a myth is exactly that, a myth. Myths will always change and adapt depending on the newest creator or modifier of the myth.

Myths are fiction, perhaps they are based off of something real, or perhaps they are just the writers imaginations.

In my opinion myths are designed so writers can modify them at liberty.

Read Baeron's post on page 2 with the extinct rhino, i think that's how the real unicorn was.


Humanity has a very good imagination and knowledge of the 'unicorn' spread over generations via word of mouth and tales could have changed it easily into the legend and myth we have today.




What is this about danes and cooking? ..Never heard about that.

altho i agree that myths are fictional and therefore open to creative license, at the same time if your going to out right change something classic into something completely new then at least have the common decency to change the name as well, also could someone direct me to somewhere where i can read all the original or earlier myths cause even with creative license its still nice to have a bit of a classic feel and spread the mostly forgotten stories around

Yeah don't be like Stephanie Meyer. I wouldn't have a problem with her shiny vampires if they weren't called Vampires but "super-fast, super-strong, super-beautiful, pale beings that sparkle in the light and apparently engage in Vampiric activities from time to time"
She didn't do any research on Vampire lore, she based it on a dream she had of a shiny Vampire, she didn't even know that Vampires die in the sun!
/rant

She could go into a story about how they are an evolution of vampire an even more diluted vampire gene, But that would be long and people would have less time too swoon over the teenage vampires.

Her problem has nothing to do with her sparkly vampires. Her problems stem from being a terrible writer who mistakes stalking for romance. To be honest, I'd have to apply myself to write anything as thematically mysoginistic as her.

Any sufficiently good writer can sell any idea - the sillier ones need better writers, obviously - but she couldn't convince me that Obama is black. She's bad in every conceivable sense. Technically she's incompetent, she blunders from stereotype to cliche, her idea for plot is bad wish fulfillment, her concept of character development is rhapsodising about the beautiful people we're not looking at, her content is mostly banal or offensive and she's only as popular as she is because there is no strong correlation between quality and popularity (as seen by the popularity of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time).

She also believes that good chemistry means sharing nothing in common and having to make excuses as to why you're covered in bruises. Reading it you'd think Meyer is subtly commenting on abusive relationships. Unfortunately that's not the case.

Yep, the irony is disturbing . . . .

I believe that in Constantine the perspective of halfbreeds is not only amusing but really pathetic.

You talking about the movie that totally sucked and changed everything that was good about the comic?