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Bag-o-Legion-Ears
QUOTE (SilverKnight @ May 28 2009, 09:44 PM) *
Xenophobes hate anything that isn't them.

Also, I doubt Archmage a racist, just a bastard.


Well, not neccissarily, a Xenophob can be a less 'severe' Xenophoobe, even a person that hates a specific group of people, or only likes a specific group of people exclusively, can be classified as a 'Xenophobe'.

How about a racist bastard?
GothicMoocow
QUOTE (SilverKnight @ Mar 19 2009, 10:38 PM) *
So. The Archmage is a bastard.

Looking at page 236, it's apparent that some things are coming to a head. However, before that, let's review what we already know:

1) The Archmage is an extremely powerful and enigmatic sorceror who can see the future, shapeshift, and travel through time at will. He ruled Kethenecia as its leader and ordered its army destroyed shortly before the city was attacked by the Vulii invaders.

2) The Archmage and Richard share a connection of some sort. If we assume that Felbunny was always the Archmage, one could speculate that the connection is a strong one, considering that you don't often see men--or bunnies--of great power and wisdom shed tears over homicidal maniacs that have been heretofore fucking your plans up.

3) Cale is destined to be King. Pella has been assigned as his guardian by the Archmage. She also seems to be there as a sort of spy for the First Ones.

4) The First Ones--despite getting betrayed by one of their own at the Battle of Kethenecia--are apparently still alive and well in the present, but unable to interfere with current events.

5) The current events, including the Battle of Bloodrage, was prophecised to be the turning tide of the Northern War. However, this was not the case. According to the omniscient Archmage, the loss "was not supposed to happen".

Richard is a spellcasting juggernaut; renowned among the demonic plane for his sheer power and cruelty. He's so powerful, in fact, that despite Hctib having an army of demons at his beck and call, he still chose to take Richard out of the fight immediately to prevent him from single-handedly tipping the scales in Cale's favor. Seeing the extent of Richard's power, it does make strategic sense to get him out of the way quickly. However, the hardest part about dealing with Richard isn't getting him to fight; it's getting him to cooperate and be properly motivated.

That's where the Archmage comes in. Here's my theory time-line...thing. Points and assertations are below.

The Archmage knows, from his past dealings with Richard, that he's too chaotic and dangerous to be relied upon. So, after setting up the whole Kethenecia dealio to end the way it "should" (or, more accurately, the way he wanted it to), he gives Hctib a means of sealing Richard's abilities, and then tags along as Felbunny to ensure it all goes off without a hitch. (1)

As desired, the plan works. He morphs Cale's sense of guilt into that of determination. The townspeople, in turn, now make up the new citizens of Kethenecia, which Cale is pseudo-leading in his own uniquely clueless way. (2) They travel, happily frolicking along to the Bloodrage camp, where they find that the Northern tribes have been provoked into feuds by Daddy Bloodrage. A battle ensues, and to everyone's shock (including the Archmage*), Richard unwittingly sacrifices himself to save everyone else from banishment. (3)

During Richard's banishment, a Northern Alliance forms to save their homeland from Legara's impending march. During this time, we see that the Sisters worship a rabbit God. (4) Time passes, and eventually Richard returns to the world a slightly different warlock (though he'll never admit it). Though they don't know it at the time, they travel to Legara itself in order to release the Sons for much-needed reinforcements in the upcoming battle. However, things again go wrong. Cale is nearly killed, thus forcing a more "direct approach", but the damage has already been done. (5) The Archmage's plan spirals out of his control from Richard's shenanigans, and instead of a glorious win marking a new era for justice and peace, the would-be heroes are welcomed by death.

And here the Archmage is, fuming with rage that his carefully tendered plan was so effortlessly destroyed by a Warlock with a comic book.

Now, cue what happens in the current page. First, Cale ponders how everyone who needs to find them does, in fact, find them at the right moment. Then, Richard learns that his town has been attacked from an unknown source. (Note that Felbunny/Archmage is sitting directly next to him, more than likely listening in.) At the exact same moment, Cale gets an urgent message, also from an unknown source.

I smell a set-up.

Perhaps the Archmage sees the need to take another more "direct approach" to get Richard involved. Or perhaps he sees the need to keep Richard out of the way and chasing his own tail while Cale goes ahead and achieves his destiny. Or, perhaps he's trying to awaken the human he once knew--Lord Ashendale--by threatening the one thing he might possibly give a damn about.

Either way, Archmage is a Machiavellian son of a bitch, and if he isn't a "bad guy", he's not a whole hell of a lot better.

Points and Assertations:

(1) Two problems with this theory. It might be giving the Archmage too much credit; furthermore, how could he have known that Richard would do something self-sacrificing at the correct time? My rebuttals are that the Archmage weaved the outcome of the Ketten War to end in something resembling his favor, and seems to either divine the future, or travel through it. He also certainly knew how to pluck Cale's strings, and it appears that he's known Richard for far longer. If he can manipulate thousands of years worth of events, he could probably find the one chink in Richard's armor.

(2) The Archmage forced Cale to murder the image of a young boy in order to steel him for the horrors of war to come, and to ready him for other, even more terrible decisions. Following that, he tells Pella that she's to protect him from his friends. Perhaps one of those impossible decisions he'll have to make in the future is to turn on one, just as Pella's father had to cull his own army.

(3) That's the second time Richard has done something self-sacrificing, though it was entirely accidental.

* Random WTF: A powerful mage cries over the loss of a powerful warlock. Hmm.

(4) Archmage disguises himself as the Felbunny. Archmage is also an apparently clairvoyant time-traveler. I wonder who gave them their prophecies?

(5) Reading into this, one can speculate that the Archmage doesn't actually "see the future" as an absolute, but instead only sees the potential for a
certain future to happen, and has devoted centuries into cultivating this outcome.

wow this has been estremely and well thought out .. good going


Some of that seems right on and others are just plausiable however all of it was well... brillaintly deducted
SilverKnight
I'll admit, I'm totally fanwanking the theory on a lot of counts, but I firmly believe that the Archmage ain't the saint he wants everyone to believe he is.
WhiteLy
Well, I think we've all stopped believing that he's a saint a long time ago... Sure, he helps out, but only if there's something in it for him. And he has this great will to control that really does not fit any decent good-guy.

Funny that the description above could also be about Richard.

You know what I wonder though.. I wonder if Richard know what he was doing when he whiped out all those Vulli-to be's. I'm actually somewhat convinced he did...
GothicMoocow
QUOTE (SilverKnight @ May 29 2009, 01:37 AM) *
but I firmly believe that the Archmage ain't the saint he wants everyone to believe he is.

i doubt that also
Warchild027
Hi! this is my very first post! biggrin.gif
before you read the following please keep in mind:

1) it's been a long time since I read previous events of the comic so I'm a bit confused about kethenica
2) it's 4 o'clock in the morning in Cyprus so I haven't read all the comments, plus I need sleep smile.gif
3) i become confused when I'm thinking of a time traveling paradox, things get complicated beyond imagination.
4) My English language knowledge sucks a bit.

possibility of Richard and the Archmage being the same person.

someone said something about that ruby Richard wears; D&D speaking, to become a lich you must bind your soul in a crystal or a gem and carry it with you. In many books liches tend to keep their spellcasting abilities but lose their major memories. in addition a lich who lives many years has a big memory loss just because of all those years. richard is a lich warlock.

richard looks quite the same with the archmage in phenotype and in cloth style. don't forget again that the archmage is way to old, so if he is close to the age that he would become a lich - Richard. if so, a major event may triggered his change into chaos and evil. an event that he tries to undo.

for me the color of their clothes is symbolic. it's the turn from law and good (maybe) to chaos and evil.

the archmage may previously travelled in time so he foresaw a big destruction caused by his future self - richard so he tries to undo it. maybe that's why (in bunny self) he seems quite uncomfortable in page 255 when richard tries to heed to kethenica.



in the last page (256) Richard seems to have a discussion with himself.

BUT in the last part he says "As for me?" ... and he takes the bunny and tries to give it a carrot:) so he may be the Archmage (ok he doesn't know it but it's symbolic from the writer)

in addition, i believe that he is RETURNING his people to kethenicia.
Think of it: the archmage is from there. Either Richard is the Archmage either he is a relative of him, this tells us he is from Kethenicia as the Archmage is. they undead are his people ( maybe all in kethenicia became undead for a reason and the Archmage became Richard). but they might became undead because of his father death, maybe king of Kethenicia, a prophecy triggered, bla bla bla. so they might be the original citizens returning.


GOD I HAVE CONFUSED MY OWN SELF!!! blink.gif



i wanted to write more things but I'm very sleepy, i hope what i wrote make sence smile.gif
i will discuss more in a more appropriate time:)
SilverKnight
I sincerely doubt Richard is the Archmage. If that turns out to be the plot twist, I'd probably stop reading.

Well, okay, I wouldn't, but I'd be sorely disappointed.
GothicMoocow
QUOTE (SilverKnight @ May 29 2009, 09:05 PM) *
I sincerely doubt Richard is the Archmage. If that turns out to be the plot twist, I'd probably stop reading.

Well, okay, I wouldn't, but I'd be sorely disappointed.

dot wrry seeing as how they both stand side by side
i surely doubt thats what is going to happen
Bag-o-Legion-Ears
... erm that is one heck of a theory... but yes, it seems muh to... um... easy, of an explanation.

Besides Richard> A.M.


P.S. And no, he did not know they were Vullis to be, he looked kinda suprised when they said that in the court.
Warchild027
guys... just stop telling that if richard is the archmage would be an easy explanation. archmage being richard's relative will be the easy explanation. why? because we have a time traveling paradox, so if the archmage is richard and something happens to the archmage we have no Richard and things get comfused... besides , it's not the point who he is or that being Richard is obvious; the actual point is what groundbreaking changes can bring to the story the use of time traveling and future selves, bla bla...

don't forget that cale might be his father - though i doupt that (ok, it was funny to see Richard in court saying he is his father, but don't forget the whole story is strange, so...)

plus, what would be the surprizing thing for the archmage to be? son of richard's sister in law who she remained pregnant by an alien oregano smoking carrot basketball star? I doupt that, too. sometimes the actual point is who things are revealed and not the things themselves.

another explanation is that richard is the archmages father...

BUT, again. remember the bunny the sisters were praising? i guess this is the archmage traveled in the past. to save them from something (or from someone), that's why they praise it. this event may trigger some answers.

remember, we don't know who is stronger, Richard or Archmage.
if Richard is Archmage, Richard may be stronger because of his lich transformation and all that levels he proseeded all those years.
on the other side the Archmage may be stronger because he can time travel.
but what if they are the same person, let's say, and they have equal strength - why the advanced lich is equal to his previous self?

this brings us to another question: is it possible that Richard and the Archmage are the advanced selves of the same person, a younger archmage? and they both have time traveled. and cale is richard's father. but he his older self is long dead allready; i believe that cale is richard's father, king of Kethenecia, he will be king again both in the young self as we know cale and both in the dead guy in the tomb. or their collision will bring a devastating effect.

we have a real time confusion problem hear...
Warchild027
so, dear sir SilverKnight, the plot twist might be that cale is richard's father. we see them in the first page, just those 2. why those two? something connects them and will be revealed in the end. when richard reveals to cale that he killed his father, in a while he kills cale.

the archmage being richard - if so - wouldn't be the plot twist but a part of explaning things about the past, a way to unfold and unveil possible time mysteries

but of course it is possible not a single word of what I'm saying is true. that would be even better. I just love being chaotic and confusing people! cool.gif
GothicMoocow
QUOTE (Warchild027 @ May 29 2009, 06:13 PM) *
someone said something about that ruby Richard wears; D&D speaking, to become a lich you must bind your soul in a crystal or a gem and carry it with you. In many books liches tend to keep their spellcasting abilities but lose their major memories. in addition a lich who lives many years has a big memory loss just because of all those years. richard is a lich warlock.

Wow. I didnt know to much about Liches, But you make a Excellant Point!

QUOTE (Warchild027 @ May 29 2009, 06:13 PM) *
richard looks quite the same with the archmage in phenotype and in cloth style. don't forget again that the archmage is way to old, so if he is close to the age that he would become a lich - Richard. if so, a major event may triggered his change into chaos and evil. an event that he tries to undo.

for me the color of their clothes is symbolic. it's the turn from law and good (maybe) to chaos and evil.

the archmage may previously travelled in time so he foresaw a big destruction caused by his future self - richard so he tries to undo it. maybe that's why (in bunny self) he seems quite uncomfortable in page 255 when richard tries to heed to kethenica.

Tottaly plausiable..


QUOTE (Warchild027 @ May 29 2009, 06:13 PM) *
in addition, i believe that he is RETURNING his people to kethenicia.
Think of it: the archmage is from there. Either Richard is the Archmage either he is a relative of him, this tells us he is from Kethenicia as the Archmage is. they undead are his people ( maybe all in kethenicia became undead for a reason and the Archmage became Richard). but they might became undead because of his father death, maybe king of Kethenicia, a prophecy triggered, bla bla bla. so they might be the original citizens returning.

That makes sense
The archamge did use "magic" to preserve the city... maybe thats how his ppl where persurved as well

Wow without a doubt this is one of the best theories on the comic i read on here

Warchild027
QUOTE (GothicMoocow @ May 31 2009, 11:10 PM) *
Wow. I didnt know to much about Liches, But you make a Excellant Point!


Tottaly plausiable..



That makes sense
The archamge did use "magic" to preserve the city... maybe thats how his ppl where persurved as well

Wow without a doubt this is one of the best theories on the comic i read on here



cheers friend!
it is just a possible solution the chaotic Dungeon Master side of myself thought about smile.gif
GothicMoocow
QUOTE (Warchild027 @ May 31 2009, 04:47 PM) *
cheers friend!
it is just a possible solution the chaotic Dungeon Master side of myself thought about smile.gif

I'm surpised about how you brought up very good points

Throw in some evidence (aka links)
and i think it possibly deserves it own thread

Call it
"The ultimate theory"

Then again mods might shut it down <,<
but i still like it smile.gif
SilverKnight
I'm still not a fan of the Richard = Archmage theory, as it's too cliche and has far less emotional impact. There are also the problems with how the hell it would actually happen.

If Richard is a future Archmage, why would he travel back in time to screw himself over? Or, why would Archmage want to travel to the future to stop his future reign? Wouldn't that mean that whatever he does is going to happen regardless of what he does and doesn't do?

Furthermore, there's the little problem with the Archmage saying, "This was not supposed to happen." That implies that he's seen the future beyond what we've seen (or, if not seeing it for himself, has cultivated the outcome for himself), and that also implies that it's already gone horribly off course due to Richard's meddling.

Warchild's theory is...one of the better Richard = Archmage theories, but the entire idea is still horribly implausible. Yes, yes, I know, fantasy story blah blah whatever. It's still a terrible and cheap cop-out of a twist, and thus far, it appears that Sohmer is a far better writer than that.
LittleFireDragon
QUOTE (SilverKnight @ May 31 2009, 09:22 PM) *
I'm still not a fan of the Richard = Archmage theory, as it's too cliche and has far less emotional impact. There are also the problems with how the hell it would actually happen.

If Richard is a future Archmage, why would he travel back in time to screw himself over? Or, why would Archmage want to travel to the future to stop his future reign? Wouldn't that mean that whatever he does is going to happen regardless of what he does and doesn't do?

Furthermore, there's the little problem with the Archmage saying, "This was not supposed to happen." That implies that he's seen the future beyond what we've seen (or, if not seeing it for himself, has cultivated the outcome for himself), and that also implies that it's already gone horribly off course due to Richard's meddling.

Warchild's theory is...one of the better Richard = Archmage theories, but the entire idea is still horribly implausible. Yes, yes, I know, fantasy story blah blah whatever. It's still a terrible and cheap cop-out of a twist, and thus far, it appears that Sohmer is a far better writer than that.



Hey, it's better than the old Richard=Tavor theories.
God. Those were so stupid.
SilverKnight
QUOTE (LittleFireDragon @ Jun 1 2009, 12:49 AM) *
Hey, it's better than the old Richard=Tavor theories.
God. Those were so stupid.

This isn't much better. Besides, this isn't the thread for those theories. This is a thread dedicated to how much of a bastard the Archmage is. tongue.gif
Bag-o-Legion-Ears
u know what would be really funny... if Richard took off his mask and hood and it actually was Tavor under there laugh.gif

Anyway, Isn't there always the possiblity that the two are completly unrelated, and the only reason he looked familier was because of the bunny? I mean, there is no DEFINITIVE proof that they are related at all. Okay, there is the possibility they are, but there is evidence for and against them being related in any way. I don't think SohLar would pull a To'r leir Fron (Same person) or a Darth Vadar/Luke Skywalker (duh) scenario, they are overused and generic.... again, they MAY use it, or even the brother scenario... but, they may not us any, they may be completly unrelated by blood or such.

GothicMoocow
QUOTE (SilverKnight @ May 31 2009, 09:22 PM) *
I'm still not a fan of the Richard = Archmage theory, as it's too cliche and has far less emotional impact. There are also the problems with how the hell it would actually happen.

If Richard is a future Archmage, why would he travel back in time to screw himself over? Or, why would Archmage want to travel to the future to stop his future reign? Wouldn't that mean that whatever he does is going to happen regardless of what he does and doesn't do?

Furthermore, there's the little problem with the Archmage saying, "This was not supposed to happen." That implies that he's seen the future beyond what we've seen (or, if not seeing it for himself, has cultivated the outcome for himself), and that also implies that it's already gone horribly off course due to Richard's meddling.

Warchild's theory is...one of the better Richard = Archmage theories, but the entire idea is still horribly implausible. Yes, yes, I know, fantasy story blah blah whatever. It's still a terrible and cheap cop-out of a twist, and thus far, it appears that Sohmer is a far better writer than that.

Well one of thems from the future XD
i wanted to agrue but you brought up to many good points lol
Anywho its also possible that they "only" see the future.. i suppose
WittyBanter
I've stated this before, but I haven't really gotten any responses. I'm hoping this time will be different:

We all remember when Richard was turned into "Little Dick" by Hctib. Then there was the rabbit mount that Richard had during this time. Could that mount possibly be Felbunny? ohmy.gif
Bag-o-Legion-Ears
QUOTE (WittyBanter @ Jun 6 2009, 05:18 PM) *
I've stated this before, but I haven't really gotten any responses. I'm hoping this time will be different:

We all remember when Richard was turned into "Little Dick" by Hctib. Then there was the rabbit mount that Richard had during this time. Could that mount possibly be Felbunny? ohmy.gif


I think it is, its around that time that the fellbunny began to pop-up.
Ang
QUOTE (WittyBanter @ Jun 7 2009, 12:18 AM) *
I've stated this before, but I haven't really gotten any responses. I'm hoping this time will be different:

We all remember when Richard was turned into "Little Dick" by Hctib. Then there was the rabbit mount that Richard had during this time. Could that mount possibly be Felbunny? ohmy.gif


Erm... yeah...?

I'm pretty sure Richard didn't change bunnies... although, he does seem to go through pets rather quickly... smile.gif
Still, one wonders whether felbunny just walked up to benny in a saddle and said "Yo, I'd like to be Richards mount!"
and if not, how that all worked. Maybe felbunny pulled some jedi mind trick... "This is the mount you're looking for."
Bag-o-Legion-Ears
QUOTE (Ang @ Jun 6 2009, 06:55 PM) *
Erm... yeah...?

I'm pretty sure Richard didn't change bunnies... although, he does seem to go through pets rather quickly... smile.gif
Still, one wonders whether felbunny just walked up to benny in a saddle and said "Yo, I'd like to be Richards mount!"
and if not, how that all worked. Maybe felbunny pulled some jedi mind trick... "This is the mount you're looking for."


You don't need mind tricks when you are THAT cute.
SilverKnight
QUOTE (WittyBanter @ Jun 6 2009, 08:18 PM) *
I've stated this before, but I haven't really gotten any responses. I'm hoping this time will be different:

We all remember when Richard was turned into "Little Dick" by Hctib. Then there was the rabbit mount that Richard had during this time. Could that mount possibly be Felbunny? ohmy.gif

It took you that long to realize that?

Also, Felbunny = Archmage, so Archmage let himself be a mount for Chibi Richard.

Let your mind be blown.
Bag-o-Legion-Ears
QUOTE (SilverKnight @ Jun 7 2009, 09:04 PM) *
It took you that long to realize that?

Also, Felbunny = Archmage, so Archmage let himself be a mount for Chibi Richard.

Let your mind be blown.



I would let Richard mount me....... laugh.gif

Seriouly, who wouldn't?

The Archbunny is definently the mount-bunny.
Trailsend

So, amidst all the theoreticizing, does anybody have any thoughts on this rather blatant Chekov's pistol that was never (to my knowledge) fired, either for plot or punchline?

...or was it fired, and I just missed it? Heh...
Bag-o-Legion-Ears
That particular pistol has not yet been fired, but there are numerous theories to what it is for.
Wildfire916
I think this is the best theory I've read on here for a long time. Plus, you've put a lot of time into the research and proof behind it, and I can dare say you are most likely correct in your assumption.
SilverKnight
Another thought concerning my theory--purely speculation (thought what part here isn't? XD), but something that occurred to me while reading the latest page, and possibly more round-about proof that Archmage isn't the Great Liberator that the story is trying to paint him as. Why?

The Archmage, the epitome of all that is Good, has disguised himself as a rabbit and spied silently for months, forced Cale to murder the image of a young boy, engineered a battle that--while supposed to be won--ended with the slaughter of a race, and never once has actively risked his own neck to sway a particular tough moment in their favor. The closest approximation to that is sending Pella, his proxy, into the prison to save Cale.

Meanwhile, Richard, the epitome of all that is Evil, has done a heroic deed four times, sacrificed himself in the process three times, and has had to give his role in life a hard look in the mirror as a result of them twice. The reasons for all of these could be seen as selfish or simply a necessary evil--necessary good?--never the less, this morally bankrupt, unholy creation has unwittingly saved more lives than the Archmage ever has.

I doubt that thought sits well with either of them, really, but the Archmage in particular has to be pretty cheesed off that his antithesis is getting better results than he is.

>rambles and goes to sleep<
Kazadathar
im under the idea that the archmage IS richard or richard is the arch mage......
same face, the blue eys in episode 282 and alot of other things.
conspiracy much?
ibiteyourface
QUOTE (Trailsend @ Jun 10 2009, 10:17 PM) *
So, amidst all the theoreticizing, does anybody have any thoughts on this rather blatant Chekov's pistol that was never (to my knowledge) fired, either for plot or punchline?

...or was it fired, and I just missed it? Heh...


QUOTE (Bag-o-Legion-Ears @ Jun 10 2009, 10:49 PM) *
That particular pistol has not yet been fired, but there are numerous theories to what it is for.


Are you talking about him digging holes in the ground? (I figured that must be it - its not the only time he's done it)
Epictank of Wintown
Has anyone else considered the possibility that maybe the Archmage as Arthas syndrome?

In that I mean he's so convinced that what he's doing is the right thing to do and that ithas to be done that he's losing sight of what he set out to do to begin with. Arthas was willing to do absolutely anything to save the people of Lordaeron from the doom of the Scourge and, in the process, became the tool of their destruction. Maybe the same thing is happening to the Archmage.
SilverKnight
QUOTE (Epictank of Wintown @ Aug 27 2009, 06:10 PM) *
Has anyone else considered the possibility that maybe the Archmage as Arthas syndrome?

In that I mean he's so convinced that what he's doing is the right thing to do and that ithas to be done that he's losing sight of what he set out to do to begin with. Arthas was willing to do absolutely anything to save the people of Lordaeron from the doom of the Scourge and, in the process, became the tool of their destruction. Maybe the same thing is happening to the Archmage.

I figure that's a fairly foregone conclusion, if my particular theory is anywhere near correct. Think about it--he now has to rely on an army of undead in order to create a bastion of Good/Light/Whatever. It's clear that he's so focused on his goal that he doesn't particularly care what it is he has to do to get there. The ends justify the means.
martinos
SICK!! blink.gif
The idea of the Archmage as big baddy seems very plausible (not to mention likeable, I've always hated his guts).

Allthough some arguments seem a tad far-fetched, I have to agree that the theory is very plausible...good thinking!
Jonath
I think the Archmage as big bad isn't a bad theory but I'd rather see the beholder being the big bad. Just think about it, what if he's been hiding behind the facade of droning insanity and he's been the one who's been picking apart the Archmage's plans?
Wladziu
Your ramblings have stirred my ego from it's coma (particularly the Chekov's-pistol bit, which is interesting but is probably forgotten).
Or, in the words of an annoying radio show listener: long time listener, first time caller.




While duality does abound in the comic (more on this later), I believe it's merely a sideshow to keep us entertained. In my opinion, the plot is simply an outlet for the author (pl?) to express frustrations at the inevitability of the wickedness of human nature coming to fruition, etc. Maybe he's read too much from Marx, I dunno.
There are several plot lines, intertwined. We're all agreed on this. I think you're very close, but not quite correct in the forecast. Just my opinion.

The mystical city represents human expansion/growth, both in population and maturity (sciences, economy, arts, overall infrastructure, etc.). The First Ones represent the heroic, larger-than-life founders of any society-- hidden away "underground" while their visions of a glorious future are slowly farted away through the necessities of daily living. The strife and struggle of any society (modern or archaic) drowns the most grandiose visions of founders, because the solutions to the problems chip away at the original architecture. (Just as we are slowly rewriting our own Constitution.)
The author is giving us a picture to reflect upon- that the foreign and domestic problems that haunt our waking hours aren't much different than those in a fantasy land, replacing griffins with bombers, and Fwoosh with... whatever.

The Archmage represents the chief bureaucrat (or possibly the entire actuality) that knows (in the back of his mind, when he tries to sleep at night) that he's destroying a culture by fixing it. Giving the people what they want, managing problems to the best of any mortal's power. Of course, ultimately selfish, as are we all as human beings.

The First Ones lack the wicked human selfishness that causes us to destroy the very thing that supports us. That's why they're a different species. Note that they hold the sword of truth...
They die in the first battle, because they're already dead. Just as our own heroic founders are dead. Nothing but relics to admire/worship. They're able to be "reborn" in this fantasy comic if the hero (oops, can't give away the ending...)...



The second plot line, of course, is that of the hero's journey. Just a classic literary structure to keep the non-intellectuals entertained. Toss in lots of duality (Archmage vs Warlock, Tavor vs Archmage, on and on), a generous sprinkling of dead ends to keep them guessing (it's just a weeping bunny, folks), shiny-glowy reclics/humor/etc for distraction..... instant entertainment.
[Note: don't mistake my sarcasm for ingratitude. I'm a reader, after all.]

The hero's fate (to become king) isn't simply a plot, however. It's representative of the cyclic nature of society. Rebellion, overthrow, new leadership, inevitable degradation/demoralization, Ted Kennedy, and around we go...
The hero's choice when facing the Archmage and the First Ones is representative of the critical component that enables us as a species to face extinction from mass genocide. The small spark of hope and truth in the midst of chaos, when the truth is too hidden - simply recognizing the confusion, the loss of clarity, and choosing to believe that better things exist. The recognition that betterment of one's surroundings isn't always necessary. That fighting for one's beliefs leads to further strife and loss of cause. And the understanding that just when your vision of a new future comes to fruition, it will inevitably face human cyclic nature, yet again.
And, then, another feminine hero will bare his happy ass to the world.



All the while, you're being entertained with the anti-hero's antics.
I believe that the author is hoping someone will notice that you're all applauding a character that eats babies, and we have absolutely no problem enjoying it.
How odd.
My, how far we've come from the days of gladiators and ritual sacrifice. We're cheering a murderer, simply because he furthers our cause and he's witty.

The attempt toward repopulating the mystical city is an acknowledgment of the unstoppable onward march toward social progress and reform. Capitalism to Socialism, and back again.

Myself, I enjoy the duality of it all. The author does a nice job of promoting self-reflection (yes, I know that isn't the correct term). And, yes, I enjoy a satisfying Fwoosh, being a combat veteran. But, I know the problems inherent in admitting it...





We aren't being shown the intentions of the Archmage because we're being shown the confusion that exists in all attempts at leading a society. What are your senators doing tomorrow, for instance?
We should be prepared that the both the AM and the First Ones are both honorable. Possibly, the lizards created a utopia that couldn't exist, and they knew it. They were, after all, willing to "go down with the ship". I believe that to be why they wouldn't let the elf pass through to the "anchor", at first.

Acknowledge the depth of the story, the duality of the characters, and the possible plot lines,
but, let's not overlook that the 4th wall has been broken in the story. That means that we, as readers, are also characters. Therefore, we're part of the plot. We hope for an outcome, but why?
As characters, do we share duality with the murderous Richard, the necessarily evil Archmage, the impossibly awesome First Ones, the sexually-ambiguous elf, or the townsfolk? Or all of them?





Don't trip over yourselves in flaming me.
Jonath
QUOTE (Wladziu @ Aug 31 2009, 09:20 PM) *
Your ramblings have stirred my ego from it's coma (particularly the Chekov's-pistol bit, which is interesting but is probably forgotten).
Or, in the words of an annoying radio show listener: long time listener, first time caller.




While duality does abound in the comic (more on this later), I believe it's merely a sideshow to keep us entertained. In my opinion, the plot is simply an outlet for the author (pl?) to express frustrations at the inevitability of the wickedness of human nature coming to fruition, etc. Maybe he's read too much from Marx, I dunno.
There are two plot lines, intertwined. The mystical city represents human expansion/growth, both in population and maturity (sciences, economy, arts, overall infrastructure, etc.). The First Ones represent the heroic, larger-than-life founders of any society-- hidden away "underground" while their visions of a glorious future are slowly farted away through the necessities of daily living. The strife and struggle of any society (modern or archaic) drowns the most grandiose visions of founders, because the solutions to the problems chip away at the original architecture. (Just as we are slowly rewriting our own Constitution.)
The author is giving us a picture to reflect upon- that the foreign and domestic problems that haunt our waking hours aren't much different than those in a fantasy land, replacing griffins with bombers, and Fwoosh with... whatever.

The Archmage represents the chief bureaucrat (or possibly the entire actuality) that knows (in the back of his mind, when he tries to sleep at night) that he's destroying a culture by fixing it. Giving the people what they want, managing problems to the best of any mortal's power. Of course, ultimately selfish, as are we all as human beings.

The First Ones lack the wicked human selfishness that causes us to destroy the very thing that supports us. That's why they're a different species. Note that they hold the sword of truth...
They die in the first battle, because they're already dead. Just as our own heroic founders are dead. Nothing but relics to admire/worship. They're able to be "reborn" in this fantasy comic if the hero (oops, can't give away the ending...)...



The second plot line, of course, is that of the hero's journey. Just a classic literary structure to keep the non-intellectuals entertained. Toss in lots of duality (Archmage vs Warlock, Tavor vs Archmage, on and on), a generous sprinkling of dead ends to keep them guessing (it's just a weeping bunny, folks), shiny-glowy reclics/humor/etc for distraction..... instant entertainment.
[Note: don't mistake my sarcasm for ingratitude. I'm a reader, after all.]

The hero's fate (to become king) isn't simply a plot, however. It's representative of the cyclic nature of society. Rebellion, overthrow, new leadership, inevitable degradation/demoralization, Ted Kennedy, and around we go...
The hero's choice when facing the Archmage and the First Ones is representative of the critical component that enables us as a species to face extinction from mass genocide. The small spark of hope and truth in the midst of chaos, when the truth is too hidden - simply recognizing the confusion, the loss of clarity, and choosing to believe that better things exist. The recognition that betterment of one's surroundings isn't always necessary. That fighting for one's beliefs leads to further strife and loss of cause. And the understanding that just when your vision of a new future comes to fruition, it will inevitably face human cyclic nature, yet again.
And, then, another feminine hero will bare his happy ass to the world.



All the while, you're being entertained with the anti-hero's antics.
I believe that the author is hoping someone will notice that you're all applauding a character that eats babies, and we have absolutely no problem enjoying it.
How odd.
My, how far we've come from the days of gladiators and ritual sacrifice. We're cheering a murderer, simply because he furthers our cause and he's witty.

The attempt toward repopulating the mystical city is an acknowledgment of the unstoppable onward march toward social progress and reform. Capitalism to Socialism, and back again.

Myself, I enjoy the duality of it all. The author does a nice job of promoting self-reflection (yes, I know that isn't the correct term). And, yes, I enjoy a satisfying Fwoosh, being a combat veteran. But, I know the problems inherent in admitting it...







Acknowledge the depth of the story, the duality of the characters, and the possible plot lines,
but, let's not overlook that the 4th wall has been broken in the story. That means that we, as readers, are also characters. Therefore, we're part of the plot. We hope for an outcome, but why?
As characters, do we share duality with the murderous Richard, the necessarily evil Archmage, the impossibly awesome First Ones, or the sexually-ambiguous elf, or the townsfolk? Or all of them?

Are you being serious? I don't think at any point did the notion of the duality between capitalism and socialism enter the creators' minds. I think you're mixing up the word duality with dichotomy. Marx didn't talk about human selfishness and wickedness so much as about class struggle, you're probably thinking of Thomas Hobbes. Also...
WALL OF TEXT!!!!
Wladziu
Where exactly does class struggle originate, Padawan?


Dichotomy deals in exclusivity; I'm appreciating the inclusive. Though, perceived dichotomy could also be argued...







Someone who's read Hobbes is complaining of too much prose?
Wladziu
The Beholder as the antagonist is possible, good point.

Insanity does seem to be most consistent in the dealings of humanity. But, it's a cheap win. I doubt the author would spend years in the story, only to fizzle at the apex.





Or would it be the apex? The highlight of a hero's journey isn't the successful finale, but the combat itself. Hmmm, terminology question.... Oh well. I've got organic chem homework.
Devin Austra
I really think you're trying a bit too hard to make the comic more than it is. rolleyes.gif

Also, please don't double post. You can edit your last post and add on, if you like.
Jonath
Yeah no offense but I don't think that Sohlar know nearly as much as you seem to give them credit for. It's a fantasy webcomic with dick jokes every other page. Stop acting like it's the Scarlet Letter.
SilverKnight
>blink< Wow. That's...really in depth. It's great to see someone read into it, but I'm willing to bet that dissertation is around the same wavelength as trying to divine the secrets of life on the back of a Cheerios box.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the story, and the twists it has to offer. But to assume there are real life parallels, and moreover, assume that the writer is purposely adding these parallels as some grandiose critique of human nature is more far-fetched than any theory I've seen so far. Granted, yes, I think a major theme is that Humanity Sucks, but to go that deep into it is...

You probably think I'm some knuckle-dragging troglodyte, now. Oh well.
Wladziu
You win. Congratulations.
Jonath
QUOTE (Wladziu @ Sep 6 2009, 02:12 AM) *
You win. Congratulations.

rolleyes.gif Okay??
Gathers Scrolls
I think the Archmage isn't as aware of being an antagonist as you'd think. Given his reaction when things didn't go according to 'plan' beofe, I get the impression that he's desperately trying to figure out how to 'fix' things. All the while, not realizing that the pieces themselves are already cracking in his hands.


As a side note, I predict he'll have a horrific, crystalline moment of the scope of things, right before breaking 'character' . . . in front of the whole group.
SilverKnight
QUOTE (Gathers Scrolls @ Sep 6 2009, 11:04 PM) *
I think the Archmage isn't as aware of being an antagonist as you'd think. Given his reaction when things didn't go according to 'plan' beofe, I get the impression that he's desperately trying to figure out how to 'fix' things. All the while, not realizing that the pieces themselves are already cracking in his hands.


As a side note, I predict he'll have a horrific, crystalline moment of the scope of things, right before breaking 'character' . . . in front of the whole group.

Absolutely. I don't think he's actually the mustache-swirling "bad guy", but that he's using whatever means necessary to ensure that his ends come to fruition. He's very Machiavellian, and for every desperate attempt he's making to get his goal back on track, he's only getting more and more lost in the mire of his own deeds.

Kinda thing.
Wladziu
Exactly.
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