Now I have been thinking about something for awhile now and it keeps coming up. When you here on the news that some one has killed some one else and just been arrested, you hate them right off the bat and hope they are punished, as you should. But if you here some one got raped you often Despise them right away and hate their guts forever. Why is that? Murder and rape, it should be clear which one is worse. Rape might ruin a part of a life but murder ends it altogether. So why is murder so much more acceptable?

I dont condone rape or murder in any way, but it should be clear which is worse. If at gun point, I would rather be raped then be killed, but for some reason rape is a much more hated crime. We can have board games about murder, we have movies revolving around it, and yet rape is something you rarely, if ever, see in movies or games, and even as I type this I think "Duh, rape is horrible! It should never be on video games or movies!" But so is murder! And yet I would not play halo if I could not kill all the aliens I wanted, and I would not play fable if I could not burn Oakvale to the ground and kill the innocent inhabitable over and over. ?

I have my own theories on this, (I believe it has to do with our culture and such) but I would like to speak with people to compare beliefs and ideas. I dont think I have to say lets keep this civil since I think we can all agree that rape and murder are both horrible things to do, so I hope no one bust a gasket and gets my thread closed, but I will put the waring up anyway, lets keep this civil. So, with that out of the way, what do you think on this matter?

great avatar.. heh.

Moving on, so im not going to bother spending my time readin that whole thing, and i'mma say RAPE is far worse then murder

Because i see Death as an escape from pain,
Rape which is "Rape is a form of assault where one individual forces another to have sexual intercourse against that person’s will. It may be defined as forcing a person to submit to any sex act, and is generally considered one of the most serious sex crimes"


It has much more tramatic affects on a person and theyre forced to live with that for the rest of their lives...
now for some people that would value their lives more and would do anything to get out of heavy situations..
They might say if a gun was pointed to their head they would rather suck the cock then a bullet.. but then if u volantarly save your life its not rape...
so it gets hazy... although its still agaisnt your natural will.. you allow for penetration or a sexual anything to happen to you in order to save your life...


For those who wanna disagree with anything i quickly wrote cause im about to go out...
I'll put it this way



You have 2 choices..

1. Be Raped & Then Murdered...
Or
2. Be murdered then Raped..


[spoiler]If you picked number two you just agreed to rape being far worse then murder.... [/spoiler]

Well if you know your going to die any way then they choice to be raped his null and void since then it would be for your own pleasure and then not rape. If its rape to save your life its still against you will since some one is mentally (If not physically) forcing you into a sexual act that you do not desire and under normal circumstances would not allow.

I dont personally know any one who has been raped but even though it is no doubt a traumatic experience, I would think that people could, with time and perhaps therapy, continue to live their lives happily. There is not cosmic force the makes it so you can not get over you experience and I would think that watching some you love be killed in front of you would be just as, if not more, traumatic. I say that only because there is no way for death to leave lasting effects on you since you just died.

But if you are already in pain and see death as a way out (which is nearly, if not, suicidal) then you would naturally pick death...I suppose.

For one thing, when you're murdered you're not around to feel tramautized (Unless we're thinking CommonWealth Saga here...). But when you're raped, it affects you for the rest of your life, and I doubt you can ever get over it. Because with murder, you don't have to live with it afterwards. Rape is sort of like (But not nearly as extreme as) a fate-worse-than-death scenario, because it gives you lasting pain and insecurity, while murder is done and over with.

In short: Murder is a moment, but rape is forever.


Yes. Tape is a terrible, terrible thing.

Also: I'm a terrible person...

But to die? Is it really worth it? This is coming form the guy who has been depressed for awhile now (dangerously so). To die, to leave this world forever. If your religious you move on to another existence and loss contact with this world for until the end of time (resurrections being the exception). And if your atheist, you loss your sentience and become one with the elements, lost to oblivion for the rest of time. To loss so much, to loss everything literally? To understand this fully, you must fully grasp the concept of death and its full consequences. Rape may last for the rest of your life, and you bare its scars but death ends your life. I have seen people get over or at least live happy lives with things worse then rape (And dont for even one second think that rape is the worst thing that can happen to you because when real life hits you IT may very well kill you). To die it a permanent thing, and absolute, you CAN get over rape, humans can get over anything. But to die is possibly the most absolute thing there is in this entire existence. Is it really better to die then to get raped?

Also, Typos suck.

Whoah, whoah, whoah there Gobbly. Who ever said that's what all, most, some, or even any atheists believe? Okay, yeah, some of us do believe it, but I like to call those the "crackpots" kinda the same as I call those people who come to my door and try to convert me "zealots."

Truth is a lot of us don't know what to believe about death, I know I've lost sleep over it just because I was afraid something was going to happen to me and I'd just... be... gone... absolutely gone. Just nothing. That's what makes death "better" than rape. When you're dead you're nothing, you just don't exist anymore, there is no afterlife, you can't remember, you can't feel, you can't hurt, because you're not there. It's impossible for me to comprehend, not being there, not existing, but I'm certain it's a damn sight better than living with the knowledge that someone violated you, that someone took you by force and had their way with you.

But then you talk about life like its only a bad experience. What if some one violated you? What if it scarred you forever? But what if you met some one who meant something to you? Meant everything to you? Some on that shared their life with you and loved you? If rape is worse then dying, then isnt loving worth living? I like to be an optimist and think of life as more positive then negative.

I believe that the experience of being raped can not contend with the experience of being loved. If your nothing, you wont be there to appreciate your nothingness. Thats it, the end of you forever. Its not like your just floating and not feeling anything, you are absolutely nothing. your existence is forfeit, gone. At least living lets you see all the god things in life. I know that love is something much more powerful then pain, much more powerful then any hurt you can ever feel. Love is even more powerful then the hurt you receive from losing it. Trust me, this is something I know.

I think murder is the most atrocious thing you can ever do to any one. That the fact that it is so normal, so widely accepted is horrific. Rape is some one forcing you to submit to their will. Murder is some one forcing to forfeit everything that keeps you tethered to this world. If Rape was as bad as you describe it, then we would hear tons of stories about how all rape victims kill themselves, and there would be much more murder then rape since people would choose to die instead of be a rape victim. Thats just what I think, and I would rather be raped then die, and I would agree to be raped every day for the rest of my life if it brought back my loved ones. One in particular.

Ultimately neither of us can decide can we? Neither of us have been raped (unless you're holding something back) but you're assuming that after someone's been raped that they can get over it enough to get close enough to someone to feel loved.

As for things that are worse than being raped or dying I can name two, schizophrenia and Dissasociative Identity Disorder (multiple personalities), a mind's shift from reality so severe, that those who suffer from the disease can never have a normal life again. I have another interesting little tidbit for you, 20% of patients suffering from these two diseases were raped and/or physically and sexually abused as children or young teenagers. There is a connection between these disorders and severe trauma at a young age, trauma like... oh I don't know, rape? That is how I say rape is worse than death, when you're dead you're dead, but when you're raped, especially if you're raped young, then who knows what happens to you.

I know you've had experiences with death and love Gobs, but have you ever tried to talk to a catatonic schizophrenic? How about someone with DID? I have, and I gotta tell you, it made me wish that they were dead, just so that they wouldn't have to suffer anymore.

Actually, I assume that that's what it's like, that it's exactly like sleep but without the waking up, it is a simple cancellation of sentience, the stop of the brain permanently.

Of course, this leaves me open to plenty of pleasant surprises like waking up in a place full of puffy clouds and the ability to sing harmoniously. (Or, more likely for me, to wake up to the grating sound of a chorus of bad violin players and accordians, while feeling an acrid burning sensation on my cheeks.


Death is only regarded by the lesser evil by the world watching the telly and seeing the news report. When you're there, a gun to your forehead and a dick in your face, rape would seem the lesser since you would be alive.

Rape is the worse of the two evils, but also the most preferable, shoving off death and living for just that much longer.


Love is a powerful emotion, but it's setting yourself bare and leaving yourself open and trusting, and the pain you could recieve from it, from walking in and seeing the other man, the reason for all the late shifts, in your bed would be the most painful way to lose love.

And the pain you would take from losing it all depends on how you lose it.

Those are extreme cases, and in extreme cases there are exceptions. But dont you believe that these is some sort of balance? What about extreme cases of love or being loved? I know I probably sound sappy but its true and it can happen. Worse then rape, I think coming home from a war with no legs after watching your friends die and finding out that you now live on the streets, thats pretty bad. Or outright torture, that is way worse then rape, it can even include rape.

Some people feel horrible with their lives, but they dont die because they have not lost hope that there will be a better day some day and if they die they will die sad and unfulfilled. There are some that stay alive just to feel the pain and know that if nothing else, they still exist, they can still feel, be felt. Its just a matter of your experiences, but I dont think that rape is quite as bad as you make it out to be.

But I dont think we can really get around this issue unless we get some people who have been raped in here to talk about it, and chances are they dont want to. I wouldnt. But I believe that rape is so despised because it has to do with sex and society teaches that sex is normally a dirty act. That it is something to keep hidden and secret like something ugly or shameful. I disagree. Sex does not deserve its rep, and I think it is at least partly because of this that Rape seems to almost unimaginably horrible.


edit:


I saw it lost, slowly, over a week in the god damn hospital with about thirty Doctors saying it would be alright. And guess what? It wasnt, and I was there for the flat line. I think I know a thing or two about losing a loved one in a painful manner.

We should also get some dead people in to talk about their experiences.
...
I think that it's so despised because sex is more regarded as not a dirty thing, but a private thing, a thing done between to intimate people (Although this hasn't been really true for a while), and with mutual consent. Whereas rape is tramautic and painful, nonconsensual and between two strangers (Mostly). Rape also leaves it's victims mentally scarred, and lasts for a long time after the fact.

Sex is a beautiful thing, that much we can agree on. I think where we differ is how we think of rape as an act. Rape is a twisting and perversion of one of the most beautiful and romantic acts that two people can perform. It makes a mockery of what sex should be. Imagine, instead of feeling the joy and love that you feel with your partner you feel rage, fear, and powerless? Imagine flashing back to those feelings every time you have sex, no matter how much you love someone. It's burned into you forever. THAT is why rape is worse than murder. Rape absolutely destroys a life, murder just ends it.

I'd say that they both destroy a life, but with rape you have to live with that for every single day of the rest of your life until the day you die. Murder, you don't have to live with it afterwards.

Im glad to see you guys are not as uptight about sex as most people are, and I do absolutely agree with you on that it is a perversion of a beautiful act, turning what she should be a love making into a horrible painful thing, and I do believe it can be very damaging. But I am not willing to accept that the human spirit is so weak that it can not survive this and recover. I believe that this act will always stay with you, and that it will haunt you for the rest of your life. But I also believe that people can conquer it and continue to live and love despite it. I believe that a life worth living can be found even after rape.

To say that it absolutely destroys a life is inaccurate. It can leave a permanent scar, but a scar is just a scar and not a wound that will never heal. People can be stupid, people can be weak, and people can be evil, but above all of this, above people can be good and caring even, people CAN and ARE strong and the human spirit is a hard thing to break, especially with one act. Rape happens more often then you might think, and although I dont personally know any one who has been raped (Or maybe I do and dont know it *shrugs*) I know that in it is not uncommon in areas were police are corrupt or where there is little to no law enforcement. I think that the one and only fault in your arguments is that you gravely under power the strength that people possess within themselves and the humans ability to come back after nearly any experience.

This is what I believe since I have faith in humans, I have faith in the power of will and the strength of the soul. I cant see why you would think that an act such as this (unless exceedingly savage and cruel) could so easily break a person for their entire lives. Yes they may feel it for months, even years, but if nothing else, times heals all wounds and people who love you can heal them even faster.

I think you overestimate it, yes, people might be able to get over it, but for every one that can, there is one that can't. Would you be able to love after having something like that happen to you? I don't think I could. Especially if it was by someone close to me. And if you can't love, then what's the point in living? Time can heal most wounds, maybe almost all wounds, but not that one.

We're especially non-uptight about anal-foot-fetishes.
...
You can live after a rape, find a life and eke out your existence into the sands of time. But it will not be as whole a life, as fulfilling an existence if you did not have to go through this trauma. You would always feel that horrible feeling of subverting to their will, the smell of their sweat as you are mercilessly assaulted. You'll never fully get over it, and you'll always have that glaring scar that you see and feel, and you may be able to hide it from the people you know. May be able to hide under the facade of a normal person. But you'll still feel it, and still be afraid.

...double-you tee fuck?

I dont know...Im not quite so morbid as you, and it is safer to overestimate a person then it is to underestimate one. I think most people can get over it with time and therapy, but then again, we are only as strong as we think we are. If you do not believe you could love after that then you probably wont, despite what may happen to you, your mind is your own and it is you who ultimately decides what becomes of you, and that is not something that rape can take from you unless you let it. I have seen monks stand under freezing waterfalls for days, I have seen war vets enjoy days with their families, I have seen people who have been in comas half their lives get back up and pick up where they left off and I have seen war prisoners, skinny as bones and crippled for the rest of their lives after spending years in a dark prison with little sunlight and almost no hope rise from their depressions and live on as people should.

Getting over rape is far from impossible, and Im not trying to belittle the act, it is horrible and the people it happens to do suffer allot, much more then most others, they can still live and love after this and life goes on. Even if you do not think that people are this strong, you can not tell me its impossible for some people to live happy lives even after that. Death does not give you that chance, and that chance exists, not matter how slim you might think it is.


Edit:

This I think is wrong as well. What about what does not kill you makes you stronger? IF you can learn to love after rape, if you can trust some one enough to have sex with even after all of that, then you do come out a stronger person. If you get over it then you are no longer afraid, and though you may feel the pain when you recall it, you will also feel the strength of your triumph over it. But then that is only if you believe that you can, if you dont you wont. This maybe be a horrible act, but it is not nearly as bad as you portray it. Having some one force you to have sex with them can not ruin your entire life. It can not, and will not unless you let it. It will hurt, it will make you feel horrible, but it will not crush you! It can not. Not unless you surrender to it. People are masters of adaptation, of recovery, of living. I do not think it would end your life, it would not do all the damage you say it will. Because in the end, people are strong, stronger then any one act. Stronger then several acts. People are strong, and the only people who are weak are those he think they are weak.

Don't lie David. We can all see the interest written plain as day across your face.


But with rape, you still have to go through that. You have to go through the therapy, the crying, the times when you don't think that you can handle it anymore. With death, it's just over. If ignorance is bliss, then death is the ultimate state of bliss, no more worries, no more cares, going back into the earth like you were meant too. Death ends it, and it happens once. Rape, it replays itself in your memory, in your dreams. Imagine that, every night for a year, two years, five years, every night, going to bed knowing that it's just going to happen again, all over again in your head.

No it is not bliss, it is oblivion. It is not ignorance, it is oblivion. It does not feel good in any shape or form, at all and never will. It is just nothingness, the end of yourself for yourself. Its not like going to sleep and never waking up, its like dying. You die and thats it, the end, nothing at all for the rest of eternity and beyond. Nothing. Can you even begin to comprehend this? Nothing at all forever. You dont feel at all, you dont exist. you wont regret it, you wont appreciate it. You wont anything forever. Its the complete and utter end of your mind, the literal end of your existence. Oh sure your body is left, but that means nothing because you are dead and you are nothing in its entirety. Dont imagine blackness. Dont imagine whiteness. Try to imagine nothing. You cant, because to do so would be to die. Death is utter oblivion to those who do not believe in an afterlife. I cant imagine a worse fate, even hell seems better just because the pain would confirm your existence.

I understand all of this. Trust me, I do. When I said bliss, I meant there is no pain. There is no anything. There Isn't. It is the ultimate of ignorance; for what can you know when you Aren't? But this is also no pain. There is no more suffering, no more cause for doubt, no more anything. I can't even comprehend what it would be like, since it requires no thought at all, no nothing. However, it is like sleeping. Sleeping and simply never waking up, never having the chance to take that section of time and label it "I was sleeping then" because you Aren't.

No, you still dont understand. Sleeping still requires some level of consciousness, you would have none. I could just as easily say its like shoving spikes in your eyes or falling for ever or being stomped on for the rest of time. None of those come close to describing oblivion. Neither does sleeping. If nothing else, sleeping can be associated with rest and peace, you would get neither. There would be a sever lacking of you in order to experience said peace or chaos or anything at all. It is not something we can describe because nothing we can experience in life and come even close to oblivion.

When gobs first asked me this question, he added a little twist to it that had me more interested than the actual question. Would you rather find out that you were a murderer, or a rapist? In that situation, I would rather find out that I'm a murderer. Rapes are usually done to innocent or good people. Its a terrible thing and I could never live with myself after knowing that I did that to someone else. If I found out I was a murderer, at least I could pretend like the person I killed was a bad person and 'deserved it,' or that I had a good reason for it. The closest thing to making rape is okay is if it was consensual sex but someone is lying/being silly and you're being charged for it. But thats not really rape then, is it? I can't imagine what it would be like to take a life, but when its done, that person is gone forever. They don't confront you, don't ask you why you did it, and it is absolute.

As for the actual topic...I think that rape in and of itself is worse. BUT, murder is technically worse because you don't know what will happen after, and you can't recover. People wouldn't 'choose' rape over murder because they think its better; they would choose it because they fear death and don't want to die. There is no coming back from death and no matter how much pain the rape causes you, you *can* know that it will get better at some point. Sure, you may never fully get over it, but you are still alive and have the chance to live. Nobody REALLY knows what happens after they die, no matter what ANYONE says. Its all personal opinions and what people think will happen. Its not possible to comprehend, to understand, or know whats coming after death.

I'm trying to not repeat what anyone else has said...but you CAN get past rape. You CAN get past your family being killed in front of you, you CAN get through a shattered heart. Just because some people don't doesn't meant it isn't possible. Yes, its tragic, painful, trauma inducing, and anyone who rapes someone else is pathetic and terrible. Sure, you will *probably* never fully get over it, but thats not the point. You learn to accept that it happened and you can't change it, then live DESPITE what the bastard did to you. Time can't fully heal everything but you can learn to adjust. It is possible to love after that, it is possible to live again. Some people don't get the right help or don't have people to help them through it...but that doesn't mean others can't get through it.

Its not about underestimating or overestimating people. It IS possible to get over rape. Love will be even more beautiful to you after that because for a time, you will feel like it can never happen; like you never WANT it to happen. So when it does, it just mean that much more and makes it all the better. Trauma can be dealt with; something happening to you that nobody understands or knows about really can't be. The end is the end, and no matter what you believe, you won't have ANYTHING EVER. I'd rather fight through the pain to be happy again, I think.

You get the peace and restfulness after you've woken up. Not often that you wake up from death.

I use sleeping simply because it's the closest physical analogy we have. And I don't mean actual sleeping, but I mean what it feels like to be asleep. And not asleep and dreaming, dreamless sleep. Because it's the closest thing we have, and death would just be like dreamless sleep without ever waking up, without ever even knowing that you were not anymore. Without ever even knowing anything.

Also, I think your use of oblivion is exactly the same as what I'm saying. Oblivion is defined as the state of being unaware or unconscious of what is happening, which is basically the same as dreamless sleep, without ever waking up.

Urrgh. Arguing with someone at one in the morning is like hitting your head against a rusted brick wall. More from me when I regain consciousness.

I have Dissasociative Identity Disorder it is not that bad, me and my personality's have a agreement, I was here first so I am in charge. The only thing that I have trouble with is my love life because we can not agree on what we want in a man

Sex and violence are fine as long as they are separate, when they mix is when we have a problem

what the hell is Wrong with you only 3% of rape victims report, so we don't actual know how bad rape is. For all we know most victims commit suicide, and when the prisoners of war come out only the strongest have made it so this is know comparison

i my hart stoped for three min. I was dead know what I saw NOTHING. Death is not bliss, it is just not living any more. You end thats it. And you know what it dose not mater because you don't know, so get over it you religious nut

I'm sorry to hear that, but it's good that you and your other personalities get on well. I worked next door to a psychiatrist's office for a while and met a man who didn't have the same luck you did. See, whenever he was nervous he'd switch between personalities, but his other "half" for lack of a better word, didn't want to get treatment, so he'd get nervous going up to the office, then his other personality would take over and leave. He ended up committing suicide about a year ago.

Agreed, let just call the death issue over for now, Im tired as hell.

And Geminight, the fact that 3% of victims report gives us a statistic right there and Im pretty sure that if that many people committed suicide because of Rape then we would not be having this discussion. Also, yes the strongest are the ones that come out, but they are people right? And they got their lives back together yes? Well then Im pretty sure we can count them as people who have gone through something worse then rape and lived their lives. To deny them comparison is basically saying they are not people or that rape is worse then the years that they suffered through being starved and kept from the sun and their loved ones which are both wrong.

Also, try to pack all those posts into one or the mods will eat your bones.

edit: Also I dont think Grym was talking about religion at all, he was just trying to make the best physical expression he could for not being able to think or do anything forever so calling him a religious nut when he had yet to hit religion at all is kinda dumb.

And lastly, your not the only one to have nearly died on this forum so dont try to say you see nothing and feel nothing when you are near death. My heart stopped for nearly five minutes when I was in the hospital and I experienced more then oblivion, much more.

I didn't realize bricks could rust

Lol, they can when its one in the morning!

Rape, definitely.

Hmm this seems to be quite a dangerous topic imo. But i will roll with it.

From past experience, i measure it both on the persons personal damage, and the damage the incident does to others.

Now looking at it objectively, you could assume that the worst thing to happen to you is to die, but i believe that this is not the case, if you were to give someone the ultimate punishment it would not be death, because death ends all suffering. If you think about this as a punishment or a torture it is better and easier to understand my position. Now is the punishment for one person, the torture on one persons behalf, worse than the torture of many others?

To murder someone is to make an impact on them and their close family and friends, but if more than one person is involved, it can explode into more and more people, infact, with a mass murder the people effected is a massive number. To rape someone is to destroy not only one person through a means of agressive and mentally distorting torture, but also to destroy an entire community, it breeds distrust, it creates a vacum of understanding, which can turn friends on friends, and remove all love from not only the person raped, but their significant others and their family.

I think, when it comes down to it, the lasting effect of either, is what causes the harm. To determine which is worse in my opinion, the age of the person raped, the situations in which they were raped and their conditions from then on have to be compared to the type of murder, the situations of the murder, and those involved with the murder.

Its too subjective to make a descision on one more than the other. But i will confirm i dont like either.

Rape is the worst crime because of the mental affects of the victim, but i think you guys are forgetting something... The girl could get knocked up. So it wont be just the victim who would have to deal with it but the result of the rape aka the baby that will have to live with that as well. and if the woman wants to have an abortion or give the kid up then she will then have other mental stresses as well. So in the end, she might commit suicide in order to get away from all the wrongs that have been done to her.

I don't know how many people actually know someone who's been raped (or was a victim, but that's too sensitive to discuss here really...), but anyone who doesn't really shouldn't be commenting.

The answer is undoubtedly murder. People go on to live perfectly normal lives, the idea that they'd have been better off murdered, since that's the result of what a few people are saying (be it direct or indirect) is not only disturbing and offensive but quite frankly disgusting.

Of course there'll be exceptions to the rule, where people let the grief consume them and life just isn't worth living, but that's a minuscule minority.

No one is saying that.

Rape is the more objectional crime, but murder is the worse one. In the public's eye, they see on the television that someone was murdered, and they think oh, gosh, that's terrible. (Except more emotion. That was anti-hyperbole.) But they see someone got raped on TV, and they think that the person who did is sick, that's a horrible crime. The public views rape as a worse crime, but that doesn't mean that they wish the other one on them.

I'm atheist but was born into a catholic family so I still carry a lot of the catholic values. One of them being a deep respect for the -gift- of life. To take that gift away from anyone is the worst sin because it takes away someone's potential.

I think what I'm trying to get at is that an optimist would say that a rape victim could get through the trauma, and that they still have the potential to be something great.

Taking away all of someone's potential is worse.

If i were a woman, say, I would rather be knocked up then killed.


as my friend puts it, "rape is surprise sex"

My friend use to say "You cant rape the willing" She was a bit of a .. well known gal though.. but those were her opionions on things.

Rape is an awful...awful thing. It takes years to overcome that sort of emotional scaring. (I should know).
Plus, 9 times out of 10, people don't even take it seriously because so many times girls put themselves in bad situations. Boys too >.<

You know, girl goes to party...her drink gets drugged or people just let her get drunk out of her mind...and boys take advantage of her. Film it and put it on the internet. When she attempts to press charges, the court and lawyers say that if she didn't want that to happen, then she shouldn't have been there.

Or even better, date rape. Girl dates boy. Boy doesn't take no for an answer. But courts and judges see that she shouldn't have been with him in the first place.

Murder...it's cut and dry. Either you're dead...which is horrible and depriving of a human life. Or you're not.


But rape, it lasts forever. And you never know what little things might bring up huge memories that don't fade

Hmmm... an odd thought crossed my mind while reading the first page.

Murder is like a switch which rips you from this plane of existence.

Would there be any argument if rape was the same?

Yes, I'm sure some would argue that the emotional state would equate to a change in reality resulting in something relative to being ripped from this plane of existence, but I'm talking on a far more literal form.

What if once raped, it triggered a mechanism in your brain that caused you to feel like you were being raped 24/7 for the rest of your life.

So... choose a door.

Door #1: the unknown that is death.
Door #2: Happy fun rape time for the rest of eternity.

I'm gonna go for #1.

Wait... what about torture-murder? I've heard some pretty messed up stuff about sexual torture murderers (sticking blades of grass or other plants with tiny hairs into the urethra then either ripping it out or crushing the penis.)

Yeah... the torture part is what's bad, but not so much the dieing part.

Where did you even get that theory? If it was like getting raped twenty four seven for the rest of your life then people would kill themselves or learn to enjoy it, and it would be very very easy to tell if that was happening. In some alternate dimension were rape is that bad then it would be way worse then death, but as it stands Im pretty sure that this is not the case...at all. It horrible mental scaring and you do probably relive it, im not saying you dont. But twenty four seven? For the rest of your life? Thats simply not true.

Rape is worse than murder since even from a view point where there is no life after death, ultimately you will come to that end regardless of what you do and not having to live through the rape beforehand would be a bonus at that point. At least, rape is worse in the regard that you have to live through a lot of misery before your demise comes anyway.

Rape is also a worse crime to commit since you are intentionally destroying both body and psyche of another living being and potentially killing them before death ever comes. Rape is also one of the most cowardly acts of violence I can think of which just makes a rapist even viler in my eyes.

Realistically speaking though, it depends on the person that the act has been committed upon that makes rape or murder the worse of the two evils. Different people will respond differently to rape. All three of my friends that were raped have thankfully been able to get somewhat past the rape and even though they've all still got serious baggage from their misfortune I am glad they were not murdered instead of raped. I would not be saying this though if their rapes had screwed them up even further than they have been. I mean by this that if they had gotten so screwed up to the point where it was like watching an empty husk of a human being wandering around that looked like what I had once called friend I would be practically praying for a swift and peaceful death for them in the near future. All of my friends were strong enough to keep on living after rape, some people aren't strong enough for that and some snap so completely that they become even worse monsters than those that made them.

I think this is a case where you have to look at the individual to know what is worse.

You just told us about three people that were able to keep living after rape, to keep going on with their lives in a manner that, at least you believe, is better then having died. That proves my point! People can live after rape, I think that people are much stronger then you guys give them credit for. Death is the ultimate end, rape is a bad time in your life, a horrible time at the least, but thats just it! Its only one time in your life, and you can get over it!

I dont know why people have such doubts about human strength, we are the strongest creatures in the known universe, our mental capacity is unmatched in everything and we can accomplish nearly anything! If you are Atheist then you can not dispute this, and if you believe in god then you know that he made us in his own spiritual image and since god is almighty, then we are in no way weak. Im tempted to talk about why we underestimate ourselves so much, why we cant believe in out fellow man, but to do so would be to derail the topic and I dont want that.

If Rape is something that can be done by a human then it is something that can be overcome by a human, and the only time we are truly powerless in every respect is when we die. Death is not a release because you can feel a release. You can appreciate it, you can know that you have been released, but in death, unless you are religious, then there is nothing afterward and you do not feel relief, you do not feel like "Oh thank god I dont exist any more!" You feel nothing, ever. Its not a neutral feeling , it is a nothing feeling, because you not longer exist.

I'm going with the majority here as I believe rape i the worse of two crime. Recently I read the book Immortal in Death, in it the main character realizes that in her childhood until she was eight she had been beaten and raped every night as long as her father had returned home sober enough to retain consciousness, calling it a gift for being a 'good girl.' It sickened me how easily this woman got over it then nearly forgot it. There is one scene, one, where the cop(main character) falls apart and that was the night she remembered it all. After that they mention it twice and her husband to be calls her the same pet names her father had and she is completely unaffected. She even tells her husband she wants to have sex and that he is holding back. I don't care how strong that woman was supposed to be, there is no way any human being could shrug off continuous violation and torture for their entire childhood so fast, as in a week then she gets married and has sweet sweet sex all night every night.

Now to bring up a topic as yet undiscussed, male rape. I'm not talking only a man being raped by a man but a woman forcing herself upon a man. Some people think this is ridiculous, why would a man not want sex? It happens, and since men are supposed to be strong, always the offender, the rapes are rarely reported. Worse, as I have researched, a woman who forces herself upon a man and becomes pregnant can legally force her victim to pay child support. This is sick.

Now for male on male rape.

People know it happens, mostly in prison, many times there are jokes about it. As a gay male I can honestly say the act of forced penetration is as unappealing to me as to a woman, maybe even worse because I am a man. A man is viewed as the stronger, harder, unbending sex. It's the oak that shatters in the winds, not the willow. The act is horrific, I would rather death than rape. I equate death to the nothing felt when put under for surgery, I was on the table the mask shoved to my face, then nothingness for I know not how long then I awoke loopy from the morphine. Subtract the waking and there it is, incomprehensible. I prefer the unknown to known pain and helplessness.

You also missed the part where I said people can become worse after they are raped. Some people become serial rapist murderers after having been raped. Some people break down into a being that is completely hollow after the fact and would be better off dead. Technically you can't argue that one act will be worse than the other at all times. My point was that it depends on who was raped that makes rape truly worse or better than murder.

I am aware that from an atheistic* view point that says there is no life after death you can't appreciate anything at all, but prolonging the inevitable when you're going to be going through a hell that could potentially make you devoid of any joy or happiness is still worse than the void especially you'll have to come to it anyway.


_{*I am completely aware that there are atheistic view points in which there is life or at least consciousnesses after death, I just realized this may have made it sound like all atheists do not believe in an afterlife and I wish to avoid a statement like that.}

Im going to put it to you this way
WHICH of the TWO would you like done to you first
[spoiler]The last ones worse[/spoiler]

I merely proposed an if, not an is.

The if was "rape everlasting" vs "death everlasting". Which of those would be worse, since rape is able to be experienced by the living, we can understand it completely. Since death is a phenomena which we cannot fully comprehend due to religious or other beliefs, it is an unknown.



not quite.

Its like asking would you like to be present for your raping, or be absent?

Lets put it this way, would you like to break your finger before you die, or after you die?

Regardless of the situation, dieing removes all forms of pain. Now, with this in mind, would you prefer to have an act which causes pain to occur when you can feel it, or when you cannot? Any intelligent mind will say "when you cannot" unless they're seriously into the whole "pleasure from pain" thing.

EDIT: By this logic, death is a purely neutral thing, not righteous nor evil. For if anything positive would occur, you'd prefer it to happen before you die, and anything negative after you die. Of course this rules out death as a possible evil entirely and leaves only rape as the only logical option.

This of course brings into question the morality of murder, since how can we claim murder to be evil if the end result is neutral? After all, evil brings evil and good brings good.

The intent during murder is what makes it evil or just or neutral not the act.