How are they in PvP now with the level cap increase?

Warriors used to be my biggest threat, just took to long to drop them so you couldn't just pop out of hiding drop them in a few seconds and then stealth and move on before being seen by other members of his team.

Can rogues still assassinate mages, priests, hunters, rogues, etc quickly and disappear before they are noticed or does the higher level cap mean they have enough hps to survive a quick stealth kill attempt(even if the attacking rogue had epics)?

I don't really know...With WOTLK still not out, I know that if you specc your rogue correctly and know how to play it, you can virtually be undefeatable in PvP.

On Brutallus attempts, currently the biggest DPS race in the game, my guild usually takes two or three rogues and two of them always top the charts.

Substantially.


Warriors will still destroy you. That's their job. On the other hand, there isn't a type of shaman that can win against a remotely competent rogue. Most casters except druids go down fast and druids don't usually do too well when it's equivalently geared.

In 2v2 Arenas, the two most common (by far) high end teams are Rogue/Druid and Warrior/Druid. And the Warrior/Druid are only up there because they're the counter to Rogue/Druid.

What's the most popular rogue setup now? I always leaned heavily towards combat(mace specialization(before the nerf, and even after), adrenaline rush/thistle tea combo, riposte, etc) once I started acquiring epics and didn't need the subtlety talents(elusiveness, ghostly strike, etc) to boost survivability.

I also tended to rely on a proc set, and the bit of luck required when using them to dish out heavy damage(maelstrom card, dual ebon hand maces, etc). Any good proc sets in the expansion for a rogue? I did a light search last year when I was thinking about starting back up but didn't really find anything all that impressive.

Subtlety/maces for PvP; PvE, with the badge gear, combat/fist weapons or combat/dagger or mutilate are viable, while combat/swords isn't that easy to play anymore since there is no badge upgrade for swords and the first upgrades there are Akil'zon's Talonblade and Talon of Azshara from Morogrim Tidewalker.

Yup Sub with maces agreed right there. Best PvP set up I think

Tell me about it. I never bother to respecc for PvP as I hardly PvP at all and the enemy rogues really give me problems...but then again I'm PvE geared up pretty well so my DPS is high enough to DPS them down while I keep evasion up...

And my combat build gives me one advantage over their subtlety build: Surprise Attacks! I LOL when they burn evasion only to find out that they can't dodge my finishing moves anyway Say hello to 6 seconds of me poking at ya while you can do nothing har har.

Well with level 70 I guess I could add some points to subtlety, and still manage to grab some of my typical combat talents. I see alot of the new maces are already quick enough to not gain much of a bonus from improved slice and dice/blade flurry(not many epics, only rare 70's that would really require the 45 secs of extra speed to be more effective).

With the expansion you get what now, 61 talent points total?

WELL TIMED MACE STUN BRO!


But seriously I miss combat swords, but because of badge gear my alt is combat fists now.

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Speaking of owning people from stealth, remember when you could aimed shot from shadowmeld and they hadn't nerfed the swing timer and Wpn Damage for aimed shot yet so Xbow of smiting could kill people from stealth? Good times.

Same here, I respecced fists simply because the raidgroup needs high DPS and with the badge gear I can get high DPS fists but not swords.

Ah well guess I'll just have to hope for Illidan's glavies.

I have 2 rogues....1 alliance 1 horde...But the highest is 20. I just have a lot of rogue friends...That is how I know rogues so well. Ask me about a priest though...I can tell you anything and everything you need to know.

I play on a Private server myself, and have at the moment a 43 Orc Warrior. I've killed paladins 3 levels higher & several rogues so far, so yeah. Much fun.

Karathress down in SSC, which leaves only Hydross and Vasj unkilled; tonight our guild will most probably try to add Al'ar to the kill list, without me, thanks to my wonderful boss making me work...

The only raid I've completed was Gruul, with no help from me, the guild that dragged me through it obviously had it on farm status, and I have yet to completely finish Kara, one run from first boss to opera, and another from Illhoof to Prince, probably for the best because its arguable that if you haven't tried at least twice, Curator is near suicide, at least with my current PvP guild, more likely to run around the big feller than get into position.

BTW, just hit 1k spell damage . With a few buffs of course.

You should play cosmicwow. D:
It's teh bestzorz.

Curator is a gear check, so if the raid can't kill him, they've nothing to do in the second part of Karazhan.

5/6 SSC now. If only people learned to LISTEN we'd be 6/6 already, but...

People are too high, too drunk, or too stupid to listen. Unless you're lucky or hardcore, its hard to find enough people that listen so that you can down many bosses after that point. The 10 ish pro's in my guild all stopped raiding cause they were sick of 15 people dicking around, not knowing the strats, and essentially killing us for 5 hours while we stood in one place doing our job.

Patience, young Padawan.

You do make a point, but there's the funny thing:

I, who have never seen SSC until 2 weeks ago am doing a better job in there than self proclaimed "hardcore raiders". Even our RL is amazed at the fact that new people in fact do better than one could expect from a "noob" while the so-called "experienced" people slack.

Well, you have to understand that a lot of hardcore people still get carried. They're just around more. The thing is that a higher percentage of the people that play for so long, have an idea of whats going on. Why? Because they've wiped on everything for 5 days a week.

I'm not saying that its specifically people who have been around, or new people that suck. The sucky people are still there and they make it hard. We had a couple officers that were terrible, but we 'had' to take them because they were officers and had been in guild forever. Hell, our guild leader was terrible.

As little as I know our guild leader, I can say she's a bitch...in a good way of course. Strikes me as a person who is capable of demoting or even kicking an officer if they're a letdown and I approve of that. Not saying the officers are messing up mind you, just making a point that they'd be quickly reprimanded if they did.

Oh and one more thing. A prot warr tank with no DPS gear should NEVER EVER come #7 on DPS on Solarian. I mean, FFS that's like a prot warr tank with no DPS gear coming #2 on DPS on Aran or sth.

Are you on a new server?

Because I've never even been in a PuG that couldn't down Curator. It was a different story early on but from six months back or so Kara is pretty much on farm for the whole server.

I've only attempted curator twice in pugs (i'm the healer). I've never wiped on him, I also solo healed Aran once because the other healer thought it was a good idea to stand in the explosion.

i play woW way too much...the fact i have a T6 druid whos been to sunwell, a mage in T5, a shammy in T5(this is all the same server) and is currently working on a horde hunter so i can raid with him....yeah

honestly i mostly raid with my druid since my guilds has cleared and stopped doing TK and SSC. we farm hyjal and BT now and are cuurently just starting to mess around insunwell but wondering if its worth the effort with WoLK just around the corner

No, no... just from the experiences of my friends, PvP gear doesn't do a raid member justice, I'm sure we could have probably downed him first try, it jsut woulda taken me a bit to understand my position. I almost had a kara group break jsut from 3-4 wipes on netherwing, or whatever that dragon is called.

Netherspite. He's actually an easy fight once everyone does what they're supposed to do.

And most raid leaders do go into a righteous fury if they see one of their subordinates in PvP gear/specc.

He's great fun as a Warlock. You can solo the blue beam. If you're nightfall specced and get lucky... 10k Shadowbolt.

...and aggro on banish phase *evil grin*

Blue beam is fun indeed, I always have to tank it after our casters die.

Used to play WOW had a Level 62 Orc Hunter and a level 62 gnome mage

If i played again i proably go for a more warrior based class like Paladin or Warrior or Death knight

I hated PVP, I hated BG's I stopped playign bescause my friends stopped playing and i'm not looking back!

Don't. Don't ever look back. I wish I could have your strength by God I do.

I gave up for a year before to give myself some more time to concentrate on social and uni stuff. I may have to do it again for my final year commencing late september if I can't keep my focus on uni work and the things that matter (like enjoying my final year with mates physically rather than online).

I've tried both. Don't really see what's magically better about being in the room with my friends. More alcohol is consumed - also more tea, depending on the friend - but little else is actually different.

Well, little else aside from driving for forty five minutes each way. Mine is a widespread country and buses are notoriously unreliable. Trains are fine if you want to go to the city - takes an hour stopping at every station - but to get two suburbs over you almost have to go to the city first. Poor for non-liner commutes, our trains.

Let's not get into the "social" part here, mkay?

In other news, I hate slacking healers. Full mana bar throughout the boss fight? I mean, WTF? No wonder our MT goes down...

We used to have a healer that would have full mana through out the full boss fight, but he was still the top of the healing meters. Other people were out of mana and behind in healing by over 200 k. Twas retarded as hell. The healer was good, but everyone else was terrible.

The guy I'm talking about, isn't. Might as well take another DPS instead of him, would make it less of a strain for other healers as the boss would go down faster.

What I DON'T understand about damage meter is: How can I have less damage done with a higher DPS but I've been in combat and alive exactly the same amount of time as the other person?

Besides that damage meters are totally fucked up anyway....

how did you manage to be FULLY in combat and alive EXACTLY the same amount of time?

Depending on the fight, a lot of people drop out of combat peridically for pots, bandages, getting away from aoe, getting back, ect.

when they're running back to start attacking the boss(lol melee!) it actually takes them out of combat, while in combat. So you're dps numbers are higher for the time you actually get to hit the boss, and you're both alive the full fight.......Yet the guy who did shitty but consistent damage out does you cause of the times your forced out of combat, while still in combat.

does that make any sense? (5 seconds without hitting or being hit takes you out of combat technically...but you can't fully leave combat in a boss fight. so its only half leaving combat)

Makes sense. Thanks to that slacky healer I actually had to bandage every minute I could. And there's that water tomb Morogrim does I got like 4 times in a row...

I calculated based on combat time of course, guess that's where I was off.

Recount is a good damage metre.

But DPS is only an important stat in static fights with no movement component. Other than that, total damage done is frequently more useful but healing taken can be important as well. On most fights, DPS shouldn't have a lot of healing received. It's a sign of poor positioning or bad aggro handling. You'll also want to have people throughout the raid sharing data (recount does this if you set it to do so) to get an even spread where possible.

Hmmm, depends. It may have an adverse effect. Then some people eho have been lower on DPS wanna top vanity meters and kick out even more threat, consequently pulling aggro, wiping the raid. Try having a ranged pull aggro on Hydross for half a second and you have a wipe as he will cross the transmission line.

I found it to be better if the stuff is analyzed after the raid or prior to next one.

Uh...what is it called....WWS? There is something out there that is pretty good at tracking a TON of things for the overall raid for the full duration. Afterwards whoever ran it does a few things with their main website, then links it on your guild forums or what not.

It personally helped me a lot to change things about the way I played. I could see what attempts had what work the best. Showed what I needed to change, and what my strong points were.


Also showed who blew each other the fuck up on stupid shit.

The vanity aspect gets hammered pretty quickly. Some classes will simply smash other classes in certain fights. It's handy for on-the-fly knowing who's pulling their weight. It counts most stats you'd need to record - total deaths, overheal, healing received - and this helps you winnow out poor DPS particularly.


Yeah, WWS is what you use for the post-raid breakdown.

Yup, don't expect rogues and fury warrs to own the DPS meters on heavy duty AoE fights hehe.

And if you're a shaman, get used to existing as a Heroism/Bloodlust battery because the only class you're going to out-DPS past a certain line is shadow priests.

Also, windfury.

And shammy healers are great on melee heavy groups.

We're one button batteries.

Stormstike, lightning bolt or chain heal.

At least they're fixing some of our core problems in WotLK. See, I really don't mind the reduced DPS. We are fundamentally a buffing class. The problem is that while we're great in raids, we can't get groups for anything else. No CC, no counter-CC and lower DPS than other classes which can provide one or both of the other two things.

Remember when I said Lady Vashj is a bitch? She's a dead bitch now.

Har! Grats.

Yeah, my guild really had a hard time with Vashj awhile ago. Almost a year ago. People were leaving left and right for different reasons. We eventually got her down, it was like the best thing ever. The next feeling that was better was getting Kael down before they took out the attunement to t6 instances.

Really was a great feeling. In the end only like 6 people were left standing and the platform covered in green goo...that was like the longest last 1% in my life. But we did it. Kael is still not on our guild kill list tho...

We have killed everything in Kara, Everything in Zul'Aman, I think the steam vaults instance gotta check on that, everything in tempest keep, almost everything in hyjal ( Sadly I cannot go yet T_T ) and well... I forgot what else we got down. But I have been told that we touched everything.

It's been a while since I last logged on but I'd imagine my guild is off finishing up M'uru or maybe even starting on Twins. I can't bring myself to be too excited these days. Gearing up is a pain for me because I'm too low to come to the new content and half of the farm content but they never do any of the raids where my next upgrades are. Being an enhance shaman hurts my odds of getting badges. People only do ZA for timed runs so I'm not usually worth the slot unless it's already pretty stacked. Kara pugs are either great or fall apart by Moroes.

I figure I'll simply catch up in WotLK. A good many of my class' problems will be eased by then, it looks like.