Here is an interesting video my boyfriend found: 9/11 Mysteries

Just something for you to think about. Obviously, don't believe everything you hear, and think for yourself. The video itself is actually quite lengthy, so if you have some free time, go for it.

This video is intriguing - it raises some questions about what happened on that horrible day... Though I'm highly skeptic about the conspiracy they present near the end of it, the beginning is very educational (it explains the structural integrity of the WTC towers, the physics of demolitions, etc.)

If you've watched it, please let me know what you think about it (ridiculous conspiracy, the path of utter enlightenment, what have you). Personally, I feel that some are never satisfied with what the media feeds them (of course, with something like 9/11, who can blame them?) and go to very long lengths to dig things up.

Spoiler: (don't read if you want to watch the vid first)

What gets me about the entire thing, is they never cared to explain the Pentagon in the video. Sure, this thing would be a hell of a lot more convincing if the other planes hadn't been hijacked and used as lethal weapons -- but they never elaborate on that part of it. I can't see how any American tycoon property holder could set up that elaborate of a scheme, massively corrupt or otherwise, just to get the money to rebuild how he wants, with out loosing money. How could someone in good conscience (or even bad conscience) come up with that?

Anyway... I'm tired and I have to work later in the day, so I should get some rest.

-Crith

Sounds like the "Loose Change" documentary, from the description. I have better things to WoW, I mean, erm, DO...than to watch an hour and a half of more conspiracy theories. Now, if you want something that will really trip out your mind and almost suck you in (note I say ALMOST), then look for the 10-part series called "The Ring of Power" by Amenstop Productions. Very underground, very low budget, and VERY wacky. Just watch how they try to pin not just 9/11, but pretty much EVERY war and whatnot on the Zionist Jews.

Conspiracy theories need to be taken with a grain of salt. Or maybe a whole bag of salt. Heck, those bags at the grocery store are, like, 87 cents still.

lol! Sounds like Mel Gibson's type of conspiracy (he has been quoted saying something along the lines of "the Jews are responsible for all the world wars").

As for the one entailed in the vid I linked... it is pretty bogus :| I did find the information about demolitions to be interesting XD

Wasn't so horrible. The sun was out, the birds were singing (prior to being sucked into plane engines, of course).

But really, people, this isn't an interesting event. A few thousand people and a couple buildings collapsed. I've read about genocides that were sadder than this, and I'm pro-genocide (not of anybody in particular but in general).

Verbose philosphy the more people that die, the less idiots left alive

No, but it is a salient point.

My theory is thus:

Societies are social contracts wherein we give up freedoms (the freedom to murder, for example) in order to improve our life (less likely to be murdered).

You are either part of a particular society or you are not.

If you are a part of a society, it is because you have deemed the security worth the trade of freedoms.

If you are not part of that society, they owe you nothing.

Hence, there are no war crimes and it becomes praiseworthy to aggressively expand your society in order to reduce the danger of outside interference for your plebs.

OMFG i agree with something u said...

Is it gonna stop! omg ow ow ow my brain!

Whoah. Niiiiiice

He just saved me a TON of time typing.

/agree X3

Ouch, I think verbose is onto something there, gonna go lie down.

Well, I'm sorry if you don't find the loss of thousands in one day is horrible... never said it was the worst thing that has happened in history, but it was pretty bad.

That aside, I never said that this was true, that you should believe, or that I believed it, so don't judge me :-p

Anyway, you guys do bring up good points (for those who decided to divulge their feelings/views), but I gotta go to work ;_; Tootles.

The movie is interesting and while I've only watched it for 20 minutes, I'm kind of annoyed because this person is saying that the steel wouldnt melt. Thats all fine and dandy, but the theory of the bolts for the tresses weakening works fine, and the fact that a PLANE just ran into it at high speed probably did damage to it too, like to the core, how about that eh? and also, the person said that steel only melts in a controlled fire or when a thermite bomb hits it so maybe if this was so well planned, maybe there was a thermite bomb in there!

the person keeps stressing that the fires couldnt have done anything to the core. thats nice. heres an idea: People saw the plane go in one end and come out the other (came out the other as a fireball, but it came out.) so it probably took part of the core with it.

What was did the news release say. The trade towers were built to withstand a crash from a air liner. But for some reason they did not count for the jet fuel. The fire and heat that hit those building would easily damage the streght of steel.

Yay manufacturing class oh and materials

that movie wasnt all that earth-shattering. just said that the government was either lying or wrong, nothing new there, and that explosives were used in the destruction, which isnt very surprising.

oh, and there was also the implication that bush's little brother was part of the whole thing, but that belongs in TFH ahoy.

Nobody ever REALLY minds the death of thousands every day. Hell, when you look at children around the world, 1,000 die every hour from starvation alone (ie. not including diseases, abuse, etc). The only reason 9-11 got so much attention was because it was on American soil and it was obviously committed with malicious intent. With the starving children, it's really a matter of apathy, so it's obviously not as bad.

Good, good. Hobbes would be pleased. The conversion has begun.


Never meant to imply you did, me ole china.

But I do judge you.


Well, it is but we don't care.

Too true. We'll never really know for certain what happened that day. All I know is that planes crashed into the buildings, then they fell. I'm not one for conspiracy theories much, so the implications in the movie kinda.. I don't know, turned me off to it.



lol, haven't you been paying attention! It's obviously the Martians' fault >.> Uh.. anyway o_O



I think the only reason I find it so appalling is all the video footage. If I had read about it in the paper, I don't think it would have affected me so much, but seeing the events unfold on the television... /shudder. It's the same when I watch the Christian Children commercial things (you know, where they ask you to send money to help the starving children in third world countries) -- no matter how many times I see their faces, their emaciated bodies... I just can't stand it Makes me sad every time.

Anyway, I appreciate all of your input :-)

The way I see it, Verbose, the reason why we formulate such societies is because we discovered long ago that our species survives better when we work as a group as opposed to trying to do everything solo. And certain actions that hurt the group (such as lying, stealing, murdering) for the benefit of the individual are frowned upon because of such rationale.

So I guess if you're just really selfish and care more about your own individual survival as opposed to the survival of your species as a whole, then I can see how you would have no qualms with engaging in such acts as genocide. Just keep this in mind: If you plan to retort with something like "Why SHOULD I care about the rest of the species?," then just remember all the comforts you have currently that are a product of cooperation. People would have had little to no time to develop even the most rudimentary technologies and medicines if we all went solo from day one, nor would we have chosen to communicate to anyone else such developments. I would like to see you try to go from being abandoned at birth to surviving on your own, then developing all the sciences and medicines to the point where you can sit in your chair at your computer connected to the Internet to chat with others as you are now.

To be in favor of the killing of mass groups of people is to be in favor of killing all the potential ideas and developments those people could have offered our planet as a whole.

Before anything else is said, your first point was the crux of my argument. Life alone sucks a big one compared to life in a society.

But I don't have any alleigance to my species. By choosing to not be a member of my society (or commonwealth), they stand in direct threat to my society much like I do to them. The fact we aren't part of the same society means that we owe one another no loyalty, have no obligations. That makes us threats to each other.

And don't simplify my argument beyond its already simple form. I am in favour of lawfulness, probably to a degree that is considered extreme. I believe that a good Leviathan will embrace all of those who offer their freedoms up to it and will attempt to make as many people as possible join that collective security. Because I believe that the group is crucial is why I am in favour of war.

Challenge - against anything - inspires to greatness. Wars have led to many inventions and discoveries, often in concentrated bursts. It is on the simple premise of conversion by force that tribes were formed that grew into states, then kingdoms and then empires. It is through this system of assimilating and obliterating your opposition that you buy safety and security for your people.

If you open your arms for a loving hug, you're just as likely to get a knife in the stomach. Thus, it is prudent to systematically eliminate others until your society is globe-spanning because it will provide a global set of security and will, with a good Leviathan, enforce law and peace on all people - not just some.

have you ever read the pandoras star duology? Cause if you havent the next statement will make no sense at all to you.

That was a really prime type of thinking. Look where that got them?

and another complaint against the movie. The last man out said he heard funny noises coming from the 34th floor. probably a good reason it was abandoned, like a lot of asbestos in it. the noises? let me think... the thermate, hmm?

I have not read that, but I don't think it's too hard to guess the gist of it and I respond to you, suck it.

I hate all of those overly optimistic pacifist plans to rule the world.

Yeah, they work great when everyone is agreeing but honestly, all it takes is for one intelligent and charismatic individual to inspire violence and you'll have violence. Better to plan for it than take a chance on maybe never having to do it.

thats right, I'm not saying total peace, but if you start to genocide everything else, sooner or later someone else is gonna get real pissed at you and launch a nuke at you. Oh goody, nuklear war.

I'm just saying watch your neighbors carefully, but dont walk into their living room with a rifle just because they MIGHT be threatening*

_{*if you didnt get it, that was a bad metaphor}

And a good Leviathan would take the time to be more subversive. It doesn't have to be immediate. According to my philosophy, the whole world is at war with itself and only certain parts break out into fighting every now and then.

Just think a really long Cold War where nobody listens to JFK or anything.

I see...

I'm definitely not supporting the verbocracy.

But we have plans to annex small, undeveloped Asian nations!

I think I'll stick with the gummi resistance, thank you.

Okay, but you remember you missed your chance when New Gingerbread is the next Asian superpower.

bah. New gingerbread shall never triumph!

They won't be the only ones, either. The Verbocracy is many and varied.

Okay, as regards "The Zionist Responsibility for All Wars" I recommend The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World by Avi Shlaim as a great read to help understand the modern Middle East. Also, you can try "All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle Eastern Terrorism."

After that, try "Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA" and "The Secret History of the American Empire" to further understand why wars are fought.

As for the 9/11 attacks, there are numerous flaws in the official explanation and they have been reported by scientists and engineers around the world. I have seen the "Loose Change" video, I saw Michael Moore's movie, I've seen a video of the Pentagon site sent to me by my insurance agent, of all people, and I have read numerous essays on the subject both supporting and refuting the official story and you would do well to examine BOTH sides.

It's amazing to me how people will dismiss allegations of conspiracy BY the US governent as fantasy, but have no trouble accepting US government allegations that it itself is the target of conspiracies. I know I am asking a lot here, but maybe we could do a little research into American hiistory, you know...be an active participant in your country.

Just a thought.

Oh yeah I've heard of Loose Change saying it was a Government Conspiracy it's Bs

here's some videos just as shocking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG3SANQZNwM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k5GTB7yaZE

Well, that is asking a bit much of me.

It's hardly my country.

...yet...

But to anybody who wants to speculate on any kind of conspiracy theory at all, why? I mean, you're not likely to uncover the truth, less likely to recognise it if you find it and even if you know, it's not like it will change anything. Not the world, nor your perception of it.

I don't know. Maybe I'm a bit unique in not thinking that the Jews are tactical masterminds behind thousands of years of their own persecution, or that the American government would attack itself to justify doing something it had done in the past without much provication.

1. Operation Artichoke and MK-Ultra were both CIA conspiracies agains the American people that were uncovered and recieved a great deal of publicity. As were the "Shadow Project" and "Project Phoenix" and "Air America" and "Operation Ajax" and whatever they called their cocaine smuggling operation in the 1980s and lest we forget, the Iran-Contra affair.

Then there were the FBI conspiracies against Americans. You ever heard of J. Edgar Hoover? He had files on Congressman, Supreme Court Justices, newspaper editors, reporters, etc. Or how about the Watergate Conspiracy? Or the other little adventures the Nixon administration was up to? Like the illegal wiretappings that led to the creation of FISA, which is now irrelevant due to "national security."

2. As for America attacking itself for justification of aggression, here's a news flash: Pearl Harbor wasn't a sneak attack. The President knew it was coming, and in fact, provoked the attack by cutting off oil shipments to Japan hoping that the Emperor would attack Indonesia since Japan doesn't have an organic oil industry. It's amazing what you find out when you take the time to actually study history instead of sleeping in class.

This from Middle East correspondent Richard Fisk

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18252.htm

1. Never said they didn't exist, I meant to imply that they don't matter. Realistically, if the government plans to do something they have the resources to have it done. Some of it they'd prefer to keep quiet, but it's hardly a necessity.

2. I didn't say there was no precedent for America attacking itself, I was saying that they hardly need a justification for attacking a nation of a different skin colour and religion given the racism and intolerance that is common to the majority of the voting public. No slight against Americans, racism and intolerance are common to all peoples at all times in all places.

Spyder- What bothers me so much about official explainations are the little things. Things that aired once or twice and never showed up again in a time of endless repeating of information. I was off that week on vacation, so I literally watched CNN from about that morning sometime after the first plane crashed, but not before the second, until almost 11:00 p.m. Little things like the interview of an airman who said he saw military helicopters near the towers before the first plane hit. That particularly stuck with me as I was certain we would hear more about, but no. The interview ran twice about a half hour apart and then nothing. No follow up to say he was mistaken, no discussion, nothing. Other things like a plane crash where the plane fell out of the sky. What did someone turn off the engines, so that the plane could fall at that angle? Even so, shouldn't there have been more drift? And if the passengers had gotten control of the plane, why should such have happened? But as many have said it is irrelevant. If there was a conspiracy government or otherwise if you knew the truth you'd either be a part of it or likely to become extremely expendable. And all the theorizing in the world won't change what happened or bring anyone to justice for it.